Got the Perpetuem. Now what?

edited June 2013 in Beginner Questions
OK, got the big swim coming up next month (END-Wet). So I bought a packet of Perpetuem to try. (1 serving of orange-vanilla, 69grams.)

Background: My longest swim to date (Swim the Suck), I drank water in the form of Crystal Light, and for nutrition ate some Gu's. I didn't bonk or anything, in fact, felt good enough to really push it the last 40-or so minutes.

Discussion: This past weekend I found a place to do OW training. This weekend will be busy, but I'd like to try out this drink mix there. Unfortunately, I'll only have an hour to swim, due to family commitments. So, here's my ideas for how to try out this stuff.

1) Mix the packet in 16-28 oz of water (as per directions for "One-Hour Bottle"). Keep the bottle cold in the van and drink it upon finishing my swim;
2) As above, but drink it before I swim;
3) Half and half;

Well, that's all I can think of, and I have no way of bringing the drink with me.

Am I missing any other ideas? Any advice? FYI, the lake is pretty safe, in case I get sick. I can pretty much stand up at any point, I just don't want to. (The silty bottom is disgusting feeling.)

Comments

  • ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
  • IronMike,
    I was the Hammer distributer for 7 years in Switzerland. I know their products extensively. It is not ideal to use as a pre drink- but there is no one size fits all in matters of nutrition. Try it out and see what happens.
    It is best used after 1-2 hours of excercise. Key is not to take in any other form of nutrition an hour before you begin drinking perpetuem. The complex carbs clash with simple sugars you may find in gue, so if you are taking gel, use the same brand so you do not get to feeling ill. So do not take gels, bars or solids before you start drinkning Perpetuem. I like the chewables and I nibble on those druing long swims and drink water. Seems to be all I need but I have not done the super long stuff yet. The container proves to be water proof. You can even stick it in your cap. You need to also drink water when you drink perpeteuem, it may make you thirsty. Let me know how it works out.
    Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
  • Thanks to you both! I think what I'll try is a nice 2-hour swim on Sunday and then drink the Perpetuem mixed in water after. That way I'm sure to not have anything else in my stomach prior to drinking it.

    I'll let you know how it goes.
  • Best is to come back to shore 25 min after your swim, drink it and continue, then you know for sure.
    Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
  • OK, I'll do that then. So: 25 min swim, come in and drink, then go out for the rest of the 2 hours?
  • Just try to get it in your system during the swim, as the rotation will be like shaking it up inside you, and then you will know. But yes digestion will take about 25 min. I think also if you drink the entire bottle at once you will definitely feel sick. Perpetuem is to be sipped slowly for best effects, it is a biker's drink. Due to the protein it is heavy and kind of gives you a heavy feeling so they do not recommend it for running, unless you do ultra runs and you must have protein to avoid cannibalization of your muscles. The roation and waves might be similar to running conditions and you may feel sick. Well, now I sound like I am making a sale's pitch-I have no loyalties to the company but it is a good product, and HEED will also serve you well. Just don't mix it with Perpetuem. Wait before switching from HEED to perpetuem. 30 mins, during this time just work with water. Just be sure to stick with the full range of products or the sugars in other products you digest will cause clashes and this could lead to bonking. -

    I will give you one off the record tip which is hard to believe but some very hard core ultra athletes I sponsored mixed it with Flax oil and one went on to be the world champion of the triple IM and double IM. It gave him flatulence but it worked well otherwise. I am going to try this out myself on a 5 hour swim. I do not recommend this at this stage. Feeds have to be trained and your body has to get used to this kind of fuel. In fact I would not switch your fuels now at all if I were you. I must say my experience has been endurance athletes but not endurance swimmers, so this is new territory, but I can really recommend the solids. But you have to sip some water too. Any time you have a question please feel free to ask. Good Luck!
    Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
  • I used Perpetuem for the Pensacola 25K and was very pleased with it. I wouldn't use anything else now that I know it works for a nearly 10-hour swim. My kayaker mixed it with water on the fly, so I didn't have pre-mixed bottles growing bacterial cultures while they sat in a hot kayak all day. I drank about 8 ounces each half hour. I also sucked down a gu gel or honey stinger chews at the hour or hour and a half. I just wanted a little taste and texture variety. There is a bit of a gassy side-effect, but I've heard that's common with any kind of maltodextrin product. The Perpetuem kept me going and I never had any GI problems, like nausea or cramping.
    Molly Nance, Lincoln, Nebraska
    http://mollysbigswim.blogspot.com/
    www.facebook.com/molly.nance
  • I've used perpetuem and it worked okay for me, but the milkiness of it doesn't sit all that well for me in my stomach.
  • To be honest you might want to do long pool swim (4+ hours) with perpetuem and see how that goes versus worrying about shorter open water swims. I'm not sure I'd want my first long swim with a new feed to be an event.
    http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
  • I'm not doing an event.

    Thanks all!
  • Thanks Mike for asking the question and Dawn for your insight. Came at a perfect time. Just received my large tub-o-Perpetuem (strawberry) last week. Have been using it during some pretty long pool swims and it is working well for me. Haven't tested it in the ow yet. Had not heard about not mixing it w/ other products or the idea of holding off until an hour or so into the swim. Going to go back and read the fine print on the container or visit the Hammer website. So are you saying to not combine w electrolyte drink? I need my e-juice or I will cramp.
  • Hey JBirrrd, It is recommended to not mix it with anything else, but if you have not had problems then stay with it. I can't translate this into swimming yet at least not more than 10km, but problems and side effects pop up when you are going longer and harder than you do in your trianings e.g races etc. I had customers that trained successfully with it but then when they were truly taxing themselves beyond their limits, they had issues with perpetuem. And it came out that they were mixing it with gels and coke and other stuff- nuts, ham sandwiches. But then there is the rare athlete who can mix it with oil as i mentioned above and nothing happened. Hammer also has electrolyte pills you can pop, so that might solve it, but if you enjoy your e-juice then cheers!
    For me myself I am having issues with burping in cold water. It's like my esophagus contracts. I take a feed, go back down and then I have the need to burp but I find it difficult. If you have any suggestions or experience I would be glad.
    Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
  • I mixed up half the packet with about 16oz of water this morning. Drank half of it before going out for a 4K swim. No stomach problems, no bonking. Happy, considering that was the only thing in my stomach, food-wise.
    Thanks for all the advice!
  • As I am a new Hammer customer, they sent me a sample of pretty much everything they sell. I will look through the goody bag for the mentioned electrolyte tabs. I did try one of the fizz tabs, grapefruit, I believe. Didn't hate it, but didn't love it either. Perhaps it is an acquired taste. My teammates swear by Hammer products, so giving them a try. As for the burping, have to tell you I am not the person to ask. Not an expert in the nutrition dept. Will tell you though, I have the same issue w/ CarboPro, but sticking w/ it. Happy swimming, all:-)
  • I take no heed at all to nutrition during long swims. Previously I have drank a small cup of cola or lucosade with maybe half a banana or a stick of kit cat per hour. And have been missing out on special feeds like Maxim.

    But my last swim, I took a banana other other mixed fruit and nuts and juices, blended into a smoothie and drank about 3/4 litre during a 3 hour swim. It tasted great and all natural.

    What I am missing out on maybe the feeling of renewed energy that a feed should give you. For me i dont get any feelings other than looking forward to the taste and the short rest. I don't get a noticeable feeling of a new batch of fresh energy getting into my ever tiring body.
  • Haydn said:


    What I am missing out on maybe the feeling of renewed energy that a feed should give you. For me i dont get any feelings other than looking forward to the taste and the short rest. I don't get a noticeable feeling of a new batch of fresh energy getting into my ever tiring body.

    I find a similar thing in marathon running. It's not like I'm suddenly fresh as a flower after a Gu and some Gatorade. But it does keep me from bonking and I'll settle for that.

    Jon
  • The first and only time i've ever fed was Swim the Suck. I've not drunk anything or fed for the few 10Ks I did, and felt fine. But figured the 10 miles might be different.
    I took a couple Gu's during the 10 miles, but otherwise it was just water-based non-calorie things, like Crystal Light. I knew I needed liquid. I felt great, not sure if that was good training and/or the Gu's, but I had enough umph to push it the last 45 minutes after my kayaker (at the 4:00 feed) pointed the tiny red finish buoy out to me. He said he had to really paddle to keep up with me at the end there!
  • One point to be aware of is that simple sugars found in many sport drinks are like lighting a match. Suddenly you have a flame and you feel great, and then it goes out and it is dark again and you have a blood sugar crash. The color additives line your stomach walls and they require more liquid to transport them, this is actually one of the main reasons people puke when they are doing long distance training. Here is an excellent article about the top 10 reasons athlete fail by fueling wrong.

    Haydn, I think your shake sounds yummy!

    http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/the-top-10-the-biggest-mistakes-endurance-athletes-make.1273.html?sect=essential-knowledge-section

    Please note that I am not trying to push this stuff. I have cut all ties with the company, but I still use their products.
    Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
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