Forum threatened with take-down by person claiming to represent Julie Bradshaw, Secretary of the CSA

evmoevmo Admin
edited June 2013 in General Discussion
As the owner of MARATHONSWIMMERS.ORG, I received the following correspondence last Autumn, possibly in response to this thread.

@loneswimmer and I thought it was in the best interest of the Forum membership to understand some of the issues we deal with behind the scenes in maintaining this community.

It's been almost nine months since the initial correspondence, so one might ask, "Why the delay?" In short, we consulted with several US and UK-based attorneys. We are confident that we stand on solid legal ground in making these correspondences public.

Important Note: Julie Bradshaw MBE, Secretary of the Channel Swimming Association, may or may not be responsible for the email copied below. We have no way of knowing. However, when I emailed Julie directly (at all three of her known email contacts) to inquire whether she had authorized "Henry James" to send this email, she never replied.

It is known that Ms. Bradshaw responds promptly (from one or more of these addresses) to requests pertaining to the CSA and/or her paid coaching services.

Please note, the following is copied verbatim, leaving all typographical and grammatical errors intact.

We welcome any comments and responses from Forum members. What do you think? Who is "Henry James"? Why does he make so many typographical errors? Given the note at the bottom, one might assume he is an attorney. But is he really??

Other thoughts?

This is not an April Fools' joke. After all, it's June.



From: Henry James
Date: Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:52 PM
Subject: Reference your wbsite
To: "emorrison@[redacted].com"

Dear Mr Morrison

Private and Confidential

You are receiving this communication as you are the person responsible for the Marathon Swimmers forum.

It has been noted that comments of a defamatory nature and or otherwise have been posted in this forum by certain forum members reference one Dr Julie Bradshaw MBE and or her as an entity association body or otherwise.

Julie actively seeks to protect her good reputation and character and any attempt by any person to cause unnecessary unwarranted harm and or distress or otherwise will be followed up, with necessary and appropriate action being taken without compromise.

You are reminded that any person placing information in the public domain or any person responsible for the placing of such information directly or indirectly must ensure it is both fair and reasonable and has foundation in fact.

Additionally it is noted that there appears to be no terms and conditions/forum rules on your website - that are clearly and readily available and set out clearly on the forum, rules by which members must abide, the lack of which possibly may cause confusion and could give rise to future issues.

In order to avoid future issues could you therefore make the necessary amendments and ensure members are also aware of the implications of making comments that are not fair not reasonable not factual and may not entirely be lawful.

Your attention is drawn to specific comment as shown at the bottom of this page here

Your understanding and cooperation in the matter is appreciated in advance in order that your host is not contacted with formal request to ‘pull your website in toto’

Your speedy response is welcomed.

Sincerely

Henry James


Important
This email and any file transmitted with it is legally privileged is private and confidential and intended solely for the named recipients. If you have received this email in error it is requested you delete it and notify the sender. You may not distribute copy send lend show display howsoever wheresoever in part or part thereof or at all. Unauthorised access, use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted.
«1

Comments

  • This wasn't the only email received from "Henry James", and at least one of the emails was written all in red. Like, you know, real attorneys write...

    Discussions with others have indicated that this appearance by "Henry James" is not the first such event.

    The forum has since its inception, (and which is visible contrary to the letter's assertion at the top of the main page) had a stated policy against personal attacks and we had removed a negative comment very quickly after it was made. (Given we have actual lives, this could have taken days if it hadn't happened to be noticed by chance).

    AFTER the comment was deleted by the Admins, screenshots of the forum thread with that comment were placed on Ms Bradshaw's not-at-all-ironic nycbutterfly website, thereby herself disseminating to the world that comment, which had already been addressed. The "Henry James" correspondence occurred subsequent to this.
  • WalterWalter Member
    THE Julie Bradshaw? You mean the famous public figure Julie Bradshaw? I heard that she butterflew across the English Channel and around Manhattan Island. Maybe you can get her to autograph a printed copy of that Henry James email, or, better yet, this thread!
    I'm not very popular around here; but I'm huge in Edinburgh!
  • Obligatory NSA knows who Henry James really is joke.
  • ChickenOSeaChickenOSea Charter Member
    have never been a fan of Henry James
  • NiekNiek Member
    edited June 2013
    My personal experiences with Julie Bradshaw aren't that good either.
    She promisses a lot but doesn't deliver. Still waiting for the money promissed by her for a banner-ad when she was the U.K. distributor off Stingmate.
    Eventually the firms rep in America handeled everything to my satisfaction after I complained.
    (Still got the emails to prove it if necessary.)
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • bobswimsbobswims Charter Member
    I have always found Henry James hard to read. This Henry James is no different. Someone should tell him that there is a difference between a sentence and a paragraph. They are not the same.

    If this guy really is an attorney (not likely) he's an incompetent one. And that is a fact. Oh and by the way, this post is legally privileged, private and confidential because I say so.
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited June 2013
    yet another thread that doesn't help the religion image.
  • bobswimsbobswims Charter Member
    edited June 2013
    oxo said:

    yet another thread that doesn't help the religion image.

    Being overly concerned with one's (or someone else's) image is exactly what's wrong with the letter.

  • evmoevmo Admin
    A reminder that the purpose of this thread is not to embarrass or attack anyone personally, but rather to expose behavior that (in my view) is destructive to the channel swimming community.
  • bobswimsbobswims Charter Member
    edited June 2013
    Worth reading to hear how Julie views her disagreement with MIMS.

    "Now it’s time for you to read all about the NYC Butterfly Swim, The RECORD and the aftermath – when is a record not a record. You may note some links may not work. This is because NYC Swim have for reasons known only unto themselves deleted the information.One can only draw ones own conclusions."

    http://www.nycbutterflyswim.com/About-Julies-Swim.php

    Julie does not seem to be afraid to criticize others despite her oblique reference to drawing your own conclusions. I think it's time for a kumbaya moment within the community.

    However, if you really want to see the extent of the "disagreement" she has with NYC read this. Actually this is even more revealing

    http://www.nycbutterflyswim.com/Timeline-Of-Events.php
  • Attorney Henry James, from Nigeria.
  • evmoevmo Admin
    edited June 2013
    The second missive from "Mr. James," in response to two direct emails I sent to Julie (with Henry cc'd) asking whether she is aware of the messages Mr. James was seemingly sending on her behalf. I did not receive responses from Julie to either of these messages.

    It is worth drawing attention to @bobswims' comment above: "Oh and by the way, this post is legally privileged, private and confidential because I say so." [bold added for emphasis]

    Again, all typographical and grammatical oddities left intact.


    From: Henry James
    Date: Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 7:26 PM
    Subject: Re: Reference your wbsite
    To: Evan Morrison

    Dear Mr Morrison

    Further to your emails Tuesday 9th October and Wednesday 10th October 2012 observed.

    First of all ,email sent to you clearly adressed 'Private and Confidential' quite clearly and simply means that. Private and confidential.No other interpretation could or can be derived.

    Secondly your attention is drawn to the 'bit at the bottom' of email you have received entitled 'Important' - highlighted now in red and bold for your attention.Repeated under for absolute clarity.


    Important
    This email and any file transmitted with it is legally privileged is private and confidential and intended solely for the named recipients. If you have received this email in error it is requested you delete it and notify the sender. You may not distribute copy send lend show display howsoever wheresoever in part or part thereof or at all. Unauthorised access, use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted.



    Julie is 100% full aware of negative comments made about her as aforementioned and under,negative comments made about her in her capacity as an individual entity association body or otherwise.

    Your response is welcomed

    Sincerely

    Henry James

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Important
    This email and any file transmitted with it is legally privileged is private and confidential and intended solely for the named recipients. If you have received this email in error it is requested you delete it and notify the sender. You may not distribute copy send lend show display howsoever wheresoever in part or part thereof or at all. Unauthorised access, use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted.
  • JonMLJonML Member
    Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but my understanding is that e-mail is "owned" by both the sender and the intended recipient, and that either can do whatever he or she pleases with it, unless there is some other agreement by both parties. Paragraphs like the one that starts "This email and any file. . ." don't mean much just because the person who sent the email says they do.
  • evmoevmo Admin
    edited June 2013
    JonML said:

    Paragraphs like the one that starts "This email and any file. . ." don't mean much just because the person who sent the email says they do.

    Correct. The most common purpose of such paragraphs is to bully and intimidate people who don't know any better.
  • NiekNiek Member
    I would like to see mrs. Hsi-Ling Chang's observer report.
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • Dear Mr. James -

    Since you haven't identified your legal standing with regard to Dr. Bradshaw in your emails, any threats, either explicit or implied, can not be construed as having any legal or other authority on behalf of Dr. Bradshaw. They are, therefore, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Or, to put it in the vernacular of my native New Jersey, "Stick your emails up your @ss and fly to the moon."

    Thank you for your attention to this matter.

    Sincerely,
    L. Benjamin Jansen III
    Fake Legal Counsel

    This email is private and confidential, unless it's not. Do not remove tag under penalty of law. All warranties either explicit or implied are void once the user opens the unit. We are not responsible for any injuries resulting from the repeated violent insertion of the vibrating unit in any bodily oriface. Gerbils don't belong there either. Change oil every 3000 miles or when the engine seizes. Call your mother regularly. All dental work not warrantied unless you floss daily. This toilet paper is not guaranteed, even for the purpose that it is intended to serve - especially if you are really, really hairy. Do not concentrate this email and inhale it - this is a violation of applicable federal rules and regulations. Don't mix meat and dairy, that is a violation of Kosher Dietary Laws. I do not warranty the spelling contained in this document because I can't spell worth crap.
    "Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." - T.S. Eliot
  • dc_in_sfdc_in_sf Member
    edited June 2013
    evmo said:

    A reminder that the purpose of this thread is not to embarrass or attack anyone personally, but rather to expose behavior that (in my view) is destructive to the channel swimming community.

    I guess I am not seeing the value in exposing effectively un-attributable behavior? Without any proof of the legitimacy of Henry James all this thread seems to do is

    a) Have forum members offer up unqualified legal opinions
    b) stir up anti-Bradshaw sentiment (possibly unfairly since there is no proof she is associated with HJ)

    neither which seem particularly positive uses of anyone's time.
    http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
  • loneswimmerloneswimmer Admin
    edited June 2013
    @evmo's point is apt as to the larger context of this and why it is important.

    While I see what @dc_in_sf is saying, we can say there is a history of Henry James as an entity on paper in relation to Ms Bradshaw previously. We've verified this with at least two well known swimmers (whose identity will remain private). Also, as @evemo said, we consulted legal opinion on both sides of the Atlantic and at least one person commenting on this thread is a lawyer.

    Many swimmers here have swum the EC with the CSA, which is the oldest marathon swimming association. Ms Bradshaw is CSA Secretary, (For Life, AFAIK). Her dispute with NYCswim has put CSA swimmers in the middle, due to decisions on both sides, but not without notification to the CSA Committee.

    Her alleged actions here must be at least an embarrassment for the venerable CSA or at least for most of those actual ordinary swimmers many of whom I know for a fact to be unhappy with the current CSA situation (based on last year's CSA AGM, at the least, and previous requests by many CSA swimmers to recognise the CS&PF).

    Ms. Bradshaw is one of the signatories to every successful CSA Channel swim, who verifies successful completion of a solo, and yet her actions would seem to indicate a lack of probity or at least balance.

    There are at least three concerns to the swimming community:

    1. Ms Bradshaw is a paid English Channel coach who also accepts English Channel qualifying criteria and verifies English Channel swims. Isn't this a serious conflict of interest for all swimmers? The CSA Committee holds the position that it is the "holder of the English Channel records". Given the high value the CSA places on the uniqueness of their records, this seems to be potentially damaging to that espoused integrity.

    2. The CSA is explicit as an organisation about not recognising CS&PF solo swims. Anyone who has read a CSA handbook will know that the CS&PF is not even referred to by name. But Ms. Bradshaw has an ongoing project to get NYCSwim to recognise her Round Manhattan Butterfly swim, contrary to NYCSwim's policy of not recognising individual stroke records. This seems hypocritical in contrast to the CSA's position. (I have many CSA solo friends. Recognition of each other's solo is implicit at the personal level, I've seen no segregation on Dover beach).

    3. Ms Bradshaw's alleged or possible involvement in this attempt to stifle discussion of the above by swimmers. As @evmo pointed out above, the tone of the emails seems designed to carry an implication that the sender is a solicitor (an attorney who operates outside the court in the British and Irish system, whereas barristers operate within the court, the two being complimentary functions). When given the chance, she certainly hasn't denied it. Actual impersonation of a solicitor is a criminal offence. All of this happened to inhibit discussion of the matter of her butterfly claim, a discussion where @evmo and I had already acted to try to keep balance.


    It in in my mind that matters like this are another reason why this forum exists. Not just as a cheering platform, not just to announce swims and discuss tips, but to have a global forum where we as a community can discuss important issues and retain or regain control of our sport through preferably open discussion by the actual community.
  • KarenTKarenT Charter Member
    This "lawyer" (who never identifies explicitly as such, and self-evidently isn't) is clearly as mad as a box of frogs - I'm not sure it does any good to fuel the fire. I think that filing in the appropriate rubbish bin is the only required response. You can't presume any relationship between HJ and JB based on the absence of a denial; there could be a lot of explanations for that.

    In my view, the relationship between NYC Swim and the CSA, and between the CSA and CS&PF are separate issues from how to deal with these messages. These are issues which we may (or may not) want to collectively air, but I personally don't think that the forum gains much from using these emails as a platform for doing so.
  • A great swim, "fly" around Manhatten. Surely deserving of admiration regardless of the pettiness on all sides.

    No forum worthy of the name is without a drawer full of angry letters, ignore them and move on especially if they are anonymous which these appear to be.

  • KarenT said:

    This "lawyer" (who never identifies explicitly as such, and self-evidently isn't) is clearly as mad as a box of frogs - I'm not sure it does any good to fuel the fire. I think that filing in the appropriate rubbish bin is the only required response. You can't presume any relationship between HJ and JB based on the absence of a denial; there could be a lot of explanations for that.

    In my view, the relationship between NYC Swim and the CSA, and between the CSA and CS&PF are separate issues from how to deal with these messages. These are issues which we may (or may not) want to collectively air, but I personally don't think that the forum gains much from using these emails as a platform for doing so.

    @loneswimmer I was in the midst of writing a much longer reply but @KarenT pretty much captured what I was going for much more succinctly, so let me add a +1 to her reply :)
    http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
  • We'll have to respectfully agree to disagree. Certainly @evmo and I take threats to the forum seriously so I stand by what I said. What we've explained of the background is what we now know and have explained to you all, but not what it seemed initially. Had we said nothing, it could have seemed to "Henry James" that s/he had achieved their purpose.

    I think by ignoring such behaviour, we allow it continue. Sunlight as the best disinfectant, etc. And I think that's part of why the larger picture is important.
  • evmoevmo Admin
    dc_in_sf said:

    I guess I am not seeing the value in exposing effectively un-attributable behavior? Without any proof of the legitimacy of Henry James all this thread seems to do is

    a) Have forum members offer up unqualified legal opinions
    b) stir up anti-Bradshaw sentiment (possibly unfairly since there is no proof she is associated with HJ)

    neither which seem particularly positive uses of anyone's time.

    No forum worthy of the name is without a drawer full of angry letters, ignore them and move on especially if they are anonymous which these appear to be.

    I respect your positions on this. Ignoring it would be one approach. After extensive discussion with a variety of trusted people offline, I (we) decided to take a different approach, and bring the abusive, unethical behavior into the light of day.

    As @loneswimmer mentioned, others have received similar threatening communications from "Mr. James." Hopefully, this will put a stop to it.

    Not every Forum thread will be of interest to every Forum member. There is a link in the top menu - "Mark All as Read" - for those who aren't interested in this topic.
  • oxooxo New Member
    @evmo what is the evidence that this thread has achieved your purpose or furthered your cause?
  • There's little evidence you'll actually reach France when you are in the Separation Zone.
  • evmoevmo Admin
    oxo said:

    @evmo what is the evidence that this thread has achieved your purpose or furthered your cause?

    I would not expect any "evidence" to necessarily arise after fewer than 24 hrs.

    As I said, @oxo, you are free to ignore this thread. I don't mean to sound flippant, I'm quite sincere: I did not expect this thread would be of interest to everyone.

  • oxooxo New Member
    edited June 2013
    evmo said:

    @loneswimmer and I thought it was in the best interest of the Forum membership to understand some of the issues we deal with behind the scenes in maintaining this community.

    evmo said:

    I would not expect any "evidence" to necessarily arise after fewer than 24 hrs.

    When evidence comes in that this thread has achieved your purpose or led to any furtherance of your cause, please post.
  • evmoevmo Admin
    edited June 2013
    My response to previous:

    From: Evan Morrison
    Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 12:52 AM
    Subject: Re: Reference your wbsite
    To: [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected]

    Dear Julie and "Henry" :

    I will not be responding to any further emails or requests from "Henry" until Julie confirms in writing that he is acting on her behalf.

    "Henry" is not a practicing solicitor, so Julie, please also clarify in what capacity, professionally or otherwise, he is acting on your behalf.

    Your speedy response is appreciated.

    Evan



    Then, from "Henry." Yes, it was actually formatted entirely in red font, as @loneswimmer alluded to. All underlines, emphases, misspellings, crazy-talk (in my opinion, of course!), etc. left intact.

    You cannot make this stuff up.

    From: Henry James
    Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 5:24 PM
    Subject: Re: Reference your wbsite
    To: Evan Morrison


    Dear Evan Morrison

    Further to your email de dato 15th instant noted.

    You ‘kind of don’t get it do you’??…. One is unsure where you are ‘lacking’ and it is this ‘lack’ which confuses .
    It is quite irrelevant what my capacity is, and rather a good job I am somewhat patient.

    - your quote
    "Henry" is not a practicing solicitor, so Julie clarify in what capacity, professionally or otherwise, he is acting on your behalf”

    One is intrigued and especially humoured reference your nonsensical ridiculous comments.

    I can confirm I am a real person and a person that does not take lightly to libel or slander along with comments otherwise similar in nature especially when accompanied with non compliance to a personal request to comply with notice outlining that which I write is ones own protected property. It is factual by virtue of your actions and behaviour that you deliberately act in disaccordance with relevant laws, laws in place to protect confidentiality and or otherwise - the fact that what I write which is legally protected, as clearly notified, and the fact that you send on without aforethought and deliberately to 3rd parties is an offence in itself.

    Please do take time out for reflection Mr Morisson before you do something so much more serious that there will be no ability on your part for retraction.

    Further ,what is also factual is that you are an owner and or administrator of a forum. This forum is allowing (wrongfully)comments that can best be described as negative, at worst defamatory and or unlawful. Many are of the opinion that the latter is true. You MUST be aware that websites displaying such comment can and will be shut down if such unlawful behaviour exists and continues, yet, on a whim you seek to deny and prolong.

    May it be suggested you now address all concerns set forth , before what is a simple request escalates into a situation that is much much greater and serious in nature?
     
    I look forward to you reverting with due expedience with comments of a sensible mature nature, and may you be reminded my capacity is irrelevant when an offence may be being committed by you or others under your control. Put simply its irrelevant whether I am the president of Mongolia (which I am not) or simply an office cleaner (which I may well be!!!)

    Why you have come to an assumed conclusion that I may be a practicing lawyer is beyond the realm of any reasonable thinking person, and is a thought process know only unto yourself.

    For the record Julie is away and unavailable as you are well aware

    Your attention is once again drawn to the part marked 'Important' as under. (highlighted in bold blue for easy reference)

    Sincerely

    Henry James

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Important
    This email and any file transmitted with it is legally privileged is private and confidential and intended solely for the named recipients. If you have received this email in error it is requested you delete it and notify the sender. You may not distribute copy send lend show display howsoever wheresoever in part or part thereof or at all. Unauthorised access, use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted.

  • evmoevmo Admin
    edited June 2013
    oxo said:

    When evidence comes in that this thread has achieved your purpose or led to any furtherance of your cause, please post.

    Another purpose, not mentioned heretofore, is that this thread might inspire Ms. Bradshaw (MBE!) to confirm that obviously she had nothing to do with these communications from "Henry James." I can be reached quite easily at emorrison at gmail dot com (as, very likely, she already knows), or alternatively we welcome her creating an account here on the Forum.

    If she did have something to do with them, then I would say it's quite unbecoming for a leader of the CSA, much less a Member of the British Empire.

    Sigh.
  • david_barradavid_barra Charter Member
    The proper font for all red communications is comic sans.... sheesh!
    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    Is there not a registry of practicing lawyers or whatever in the UK? For "him" to say that you shouldn't have come to the conclusion that "he" is a lawyer is comical. I smell a sycophant. When will one of DN's loyal followers try the same thing?
  • There's the SRA, the Solictor's Regulatory Authority for the UK. It was one of the first places we checked. One can search on Henry James or any other, and interrogate results and proceed from there.
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited June 2013
    evmo said:

    Another purpose, not mentioned heretofore, is that this thread might inspire Ms. Bradshaw (MBE!) to confirm that obviously she had nothing to do with these communications from "Henry James."

    Considering that you feel confident that you have successfully contacted her via email, starting this thread for that purpose would be harassment - an example in itself of bullying and intimidation. Just my personal opinion, of course.
  • evmoevmo Admin
    @oxo, what (in your opinion) is the most effective method of dealing with bullies?
  • oxooxo New Member
    what result do you want?
  • evmoevmo Admin
    To prevent future bullying.
  • LisaLisa Temporary Suspension
    I assume you tried tracing the IP address , and that "Henry" was competent enough to block it?
  • evmoevmo Admin
    edited July 2013
    "Henry" seems to be based in Blackpool UK, which as you may know is the hometown of JB, though not her current location.
  • bobswimsbobswims Charter Member
    Everyone please take note. If someone by the name of Henry James sends you threatening emails claiming they are defending me from your unlawful acts, please let me know so I can fire my office cleaner. (If you didn't catch the reference you lose 10 points)
  • evmoevmo Admin
    From: Evan Morrison
    Date: Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 1:27 PM
    Subject: Re: Reference your wbsite
    To: [email protected]
    Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]


    Dear "Henry":

    If Julie is "away," then perhaps you can clarify for me:

    1. Are you acting on Julie's behalf?
    2. Is she aware of the messages you have sent me?

    Evan



    From: Henry James
    Date: Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 2:15 PM
    Subject: Re: Reference your wbsite
    To: Evan Morrison


    Evening """""""""Evan""""""""""

    Your questions are irrelevant and clear detraction and evasion by you to address what you have allowed on your website - a website that for which you are responsible. All information is clear as per previous. As you are fully aware it is pretty much irrelevant WHO complains and in what capacity when an offence may being committed by another, directly or indirectly. Ask your attorney.

    The fact remains you are responsible for a website, a website that has members who place comments that could be considered unlawful. It is really this YOU should be concentrating on. Nothing else.(apart from the fact you are illegally forwarding private and confidential legally privilged information to others and ignoring requests continuously to not do so)

    Please do not evade further the issues in question

    Yes Julie is aware as per previous.

    Trusting you will now face facts.

    "Henry"
  • mmeadmmead Charter Member
    I hereby declare this is my favorite forum thread in the history of the world. Carry on........
  • The English absolutely crack me up! Thank you, Evan, for sharing and I hope we can see more in the near future.
    Ron Collins
    Clearwater, Florida
    DistanceMatters.com
  • NYC Swim has had its dealings with Mr James as well. "He" has been a real joy to communicate with.

    Below is one email of many (10 or 15 emails) that we received, after we reminded Julie her swim was not a world record.

    You can see in this email that there is a tie between Mr James and Ms Bradshaw.

    -Morty

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Henry James
    Date: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 8:10 AM
    Subject: FAO
    Cc: "[email protected]"

    Dear [NYC Swim]

    Private and Confidential

    Cease and Desist Notice

    Further to the email sent by and signed by you to Dr Julie Bradshaw MBE, (carbon copied to a Mr Michael Read CSA UK) de dato Sunday, April 22, 2012 7:39 PM ,the content of which has been noted.

    Firstly, most importantly and with urgent concern your attention is drawn to the following statements made by you reference Dr Bradshaw highlighted as under

    []
    “We do not wish to continue to police the Internet and the media for your false claims”

    You are reminded that these are direct accusations/allegations, being improper, incorrect ,wrong, unjust, fundamentally flawed, lacking substance and may even be considered by others maybe including your own attorney in these circumstances to constitute libel slander or other. Such statements made by you acting as agent and or representative for or on behalf of NYC Swim along with any further comment similar in nature cannot and will not be tolerated now or in future. It is therefore formally requested you retract such accusation/allegation ,formally and publicly apologize, and refrain from future use of such terminology in order to obviate the possibility of action being taken against either yourself your organisation or both along with all or any attendant negative publicity that may arise as a result therefrom.

    Notwithstanding the legal implications of you making such wrongful, improper, ill founded, ill informed and fundamentally flawed statements, they are considered deeply offensive and upsetting for the recipient and appear to be a method of discrediting a person without just and lawful cause and and/or reason or otherwise. You are therefore once again reminded that any attempt by you, your organisation NYC Swim or any other entity body individual organisation thereto connected, to wilfully and maliciously discredit traduce disparage denigrate depreciate derogate tarnish sully or carry out any other wilful act which causes harm to Dr Julie Bradshaw and her good character and name or to any body entity organisation or individual with whom she is connected will be dealt with in an appropriate manner and action will be taken without notice.

    Reference your wrongful demand:

    There is a feeling that you may appear to have a ‘bee in your bonnet’ regarding the use of the word ‘record’.

    For the purpose of record and clarity and avoidance of doubt the definition and interpretation of ‘record’ is briefly referred to hereunder

    1.‘an account, as of information or facts, set down especially in writing as a means of preserving knowledge’

    2.‘an account in permanent form, maybe in writing, preserving knowledge or information about facts or events’

    3.‘the sum of one's recognized achievements, career, or performance’

    4.‘documents or volumes containing evidence’

    Your attention is drawn to the Certificate issued by The International Swimming Hall Of Fame clearly stating that according to available data a swim was completed by Julie Bradshaw of Great Britain using only the butterfly stroke which involved circumnavigating Manhattan Island, being a distance of some 28.5 miles and being the fastest butterfly swim recorded.

    As you will notice the certificate so referred to and the information therein contained clearly falls into the category and definition ‘record’ as above mentioned and clearly described as set out.

    It therefore appears extremely unreasonable, contradictory and wrong for you to make the requests and demands that you do, notwithstanding the manner in which you are attempting such wrongful request, and it must be made clear that you are not in a position, in any way shape nor form or indeed at all to demand changes to any wording relating to descriptions of all or any swims by Dr Bradshaw wheresoever and howsoever displayed.. It is insulting to say the least that you unilaterally suggest, for reasons known only unto yourself, changes should be made on a what appears to be your pedantic churlish whim.

    The fact a small organisation such as NYC may not recognize such swim is mere irrelevance and of little concern to most. The fact remains Dr Bradshaw’s 28.5 mile Manhattan circumnavigation is indeed a world first and a record. Quod est Demonstrandum. Plain and simple.


    It must further be pointed out that your grievance seems ‘unusual’ having due regard to the following:-
    http://www.blackamericaweb.com/?q=articles/news/the_black_diaspora_news/29649
    http://blackathlete.net/artman2/publish/Swimming_34/Black_Butterfly_1925.shtml
    http://blackheywood.newsvine.com/_news/2011/06/23/6924853-little-known-black-history-fact-charlie-the-tuna-chapman

    It appears that neither you nor your organisation NYC Swim have any issues with other peoples Manhattan butterfly swims being classed as a world record. It may be suggested you should take time out to reflect on your current behaviours, which may serve only to bring yourself and NYC Swim into disrepute. Such behaviours can be dismissed as otiose petty and contemptible and accordingly do not warrant the time and or otherwise of further comment.

    In fine, it is formally requested you retract your wrongful allegations and when you or your organisation contact Dr Bradshaw in future please ensure your communications be constructive and have foundation built on fact not emotion.

    Any further communication sent by you and/or your organisation to Dr Bradshaw should also be carbon copied to this address for reference and attention.

    Trusting this clarifies the position.

    Your response is welcomed.

    Sincerely

    Sent via email

    Henry James m.p.
  • evmoevmo Admin
    Thanks for this, @NYCBlueMan. Hopefully this clarifies things for some of our skeptics.

    Henry James m.p.

    M.P. being an abbreviation for "Member of Parliament," naturally.
  • NiekNiek Member
    edited June 2013

    Henry James m.p. wrote:
    2.‘an account in permanent form, maybe in writing, preserving knowledge or information about facts or events’

    I can only repeat to Mrs. J.B.: I would like to see Mrs. Hsi-Ling Chang's observer report.
    Surely J.B. you would have kept a copy with such an important underlying occasion at stake.

    M.P. being an abbreviation for "Member of Parliament," naturally.

    Yes and I learned it should be written in capital letters and not as Henry James did in small letters.
    Maybe my English teacher of Dutch origination was wrong?
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • david_barradavid_barra Charter Member
    evmo said:


    M.P. being an abbreviation for "Member of Parliament," naturally.

    Monty Python
    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
  • malinakamalinaka Charter Member
    edited June 2013

    Henry James m.p. said:
    ...when an offence may be being committed by you or others under your control.

    @evmo I'd like to contribute something here that's negative and defamatory, but also witty. What would you like me to say?

    ...

    Wait a second!! M.P. in caps IS Member of Parliment. Isn't m.p. in lower-case the accepted abbreviation for Mongolian President!? "Henry James" says he is not the President of Mongolia, but did he say he was not the former Mongolian President? Only one former m.p. has a name that can be anagramed to form "Henry": Nambaryn Enkhbayar. Even more intriguing, he studied in Leeds, only 90 minutes from both Blackpool and Loughborough (where Dr. J Madfish B MBE studied)!! Also, he is NOT a lawyer. Folks, I think we found our guy. (Thanks @evmo for researching and writing all that for me.)
    I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.
  • I believe the Brits don't akshoolly use periods (Mrs Ramsay), so the correct form would be MP.
    Hence, m.p. can only stand for some semi-closed-mouth plosives, such as "meh" and "pheh."
  • oxooxo New Member
    ahh, such sunday evening wit

    missing person
    mistaken person
    misunderstood phan
  • evmoevmo Admin
    edited June 2013
    Niek said:

    I would like to see Mrs. Hsi-Ling Chang's observer report.
    Surely J.B. you would have kept a copy with such an important underlying occasion at stake.

    What would you hope to find? Her task as observer was to observe a "freestyle" (in the traditional sense, not the crawl-stroke sense) circumnavigation of Manhattan according to NYC Swim rules, not to judge whether or how the butterfly stroke was being executed.
This discussion has been closed.