Forum threatened with take-down by person claiming to represent Julie Bradshaw, Secretary of the CSA

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Comments

  • mutha phucka?
    Ron Collins
    Clearwater, Florida
    DistanceMatters.com
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited June 2013
    best one yet. still lmao.
  • smithsmith Member
    Milli Vanilli would've done a better job faking this one.
    Lactate is for wimps.
  • gregocgregoc Member
    This would be the funniest thread if it wasn't so sad. From everything above it would seem that Henry James is a real person. @Karen T put it best when referring to his mental state. I don't want to post anything negative about Mr. James, but I think it had to do with frogs in a box. Mr. James is from Bradshaw's home town and clearly knows her (friend, relative, neighbor). This must be very embarrassing for Dr. Bradshaw. I would guess that she did not ask for someone in such a mental state to send these emails out. I am surprised that she never responded to discredit Mr. James, but there is a chance that she does not even know who he is. I just find it really sad.
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited July 2013
    gregoc said:

    I would guess that she did not ask for someone in such a mental state to send these emails out. I am surprised that she never responded to discredit Mr. James, but there is a chance that she does not even know who he is.

    Greg, I agree this is sad in many ways.

    However, it seems unlikely that Ms. Bradshaw is not aware of Henry and his threatening messages.

    Read Morty's post above. How did Henry receive Morty's email to Julie in the first place?

    ...
  • loneswimmerloneswimmer Admin
    edited July 2013
    @gregoc, your compassion does you credit. Though I remain to be convinced myself that "Henry" is a real entity.

    Personally I'm increasingly uncomfortable with the evolution and tone of this thread and I'd ask everyone to look at it as if it were concerning someone they knew.

    But given what I stated previously, I still think it's important that we aired this and I'd ask people to keep in mind where and why we made this public:

    We want the forum to be a place where people can discuss issues to pertinent everyone. We believe both the conflicts of interest and direct threat to the forum needed to be addressed.

    (A reminder of why the discussion arose which @evmo linked in the first comment on this thread, was the change by NYCSwim to MIMS Qualification criteria for CSA Solo swimmers from Event to Observer. We saw the reason NYCSwim believed they had no choice in the matter; repeated invalid claims by Ms. Bradshaw who is a position of trust as a CSA Executive Member and Secretary).

    Ms. Bradshaw was given more than adequate opportunity to respond or clarify about the "Henry" emails, and has refused to so do or even respond. This issue could be cleared up by communication from her, and we know she has read the forum since she posted screenshots on the same day we received the first "Henry" email.

    That opportunity and offer still remains open, that she can signup at any time and we will of course approve her immediately and I will personally guarantee that she can engage in debate here in a open and respectful manner.
  • JonMLJonML Member
    oxo said:

    ahh, such sunday evening wit
    missing person
    mistaken person
    misunderstood phan

    misuser of pharmaceuticals
    marching phallus
    maximum pain
    mysterious prankster
    meandering phantasm
    major primadonna
    melodic percussionist
    moronic prig
    mediocre pundit
  • MikeHMikeH Member
    After careful reading of his emails, I've come to the conclusion that Mr James would prefer that his emails not be posted publicly :)!

    To the administrator...This is, in my humble opinion, a very entertaining and illuminating thread, and it seems worthy of continuing to push back against Mr James.
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited July 2013
    It is worth noting that one UK-based forum member has contacted me privately to express support for this thread, while refraining from posting here for fear of legal action.
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013

    frogs in a box.

    Not necessarily. Since text-analytics can find authorship links between unattributed passages, I'd say it is more likely that the author obfuscated their natural voice.

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited July 2013
    evmo said:

    the best interest of the Forum membership to understand some of the issues we deal with behind the scenes in maintaining this community.

    oxo said:

    When evidence comes in that this thread has achieved your purpose or led to any furtherance of your stated cause, please post.

    ...
    Mike_H123 said:

    To the administrator...This is, in my humble opinion, a very entertaining and illuminating thread, and it seems worthy of continuing to push back against Mr James.

  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013

    Looking at the history of this issue as it relates to this forum... which started with the MIMS qualification thread, I have no reason to suspect anything otherwise; but you do so?????

    +10 for bringing in the history.

    -10 for ignoring how this thread has developed in general, and the particular post that started with "Another purpose, not mentioned heretofore, is that this thread might ..."

    The snark in my response to that post was confirmed by subsequent insider info, as you put it.
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited July 2013
    oxo said:

    -10 for ignoring how this thread has developed, and the particular post that started with "Another purpose, not mentioned heretofore, is that this thread might ..."

    Yes. It would be nice if Julie would clarify her relationship (if any) to the entity-known-as-"Henry James," and whether she authorized "him" to send threatening messages to me, to NYC Swim, and others.

    You disagree?

    If someone were sending threatening legal-sounding messages to people, seemingly on my behalf but without my authorization, I would certainly be eager to disavow them. Wouldn't you?

    It would also be interesting to know how "Henry James" came into possession of an email sent privately from NYC Swim to Julie.
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013
    evmo said:

    It would be nice if Julie would clarify her relationship (if any) to the entity-known-as-"Henry James," and whether she authorized "him" to send threatening messages to me, to NYC Swim, and others.

    You disagree?

    If someone were sending threatening legal-sounding messages to people, seemingly on my behalf but without my authorization, I would certainly be eager to disavow them. Wouldn't you?

    I'm not sure what you mean by 'nice'. In general, public figures do not respond in the manner that you want Julie to ... at least that is my impression. Appropriated from a previous post: Being overly concerned with one's (or someone else's) image is exactly what's wrong ...
  • gregocgregoc Member
    oxo said:

    I'm not sure what you mean by 'nice'. In general, public figures do not respond in the manner that you want Julie to

    I'm not sure what you mean by "public figures". We're not talking about Angelina Jolie, but a fellow open-water swimmer.
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013
    gregoc said:

    I'm not sure what you mean by "public figures".

    this is what I meant:
    emvo said:

    it's quite unbecoming for a leader of the CSA, much less a Member of the British Empire

    ... regardless, what's operative is not the world's view, but the person's self-image and where the person wants to be 5 years from now.
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    From: Evan Morrison
    Date: Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 2:18 PM
    Subject: Re: Reference your wbsite
    To: Henry James

    Dear "Henry,"

    Which law, specifically, would I be violating by disseminating your correspondence?

    Thank you very much for your time,
    Evan



    From: Henry James
    Date: Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 3:31 PM
    Subject: Re: Reference your wbsite
    To: Evan Morrison


    To be perfectly frank and honest Evan, the manner in which you communicate indicates the quality of your intelligence and really warrants no further comment.

    As I am quite clearly not a lawyer,I am unable to advise and thus suggest you take advise from a suitably qualified professional such as your attorney regards laws SPECIFICALLY relating to IP/Privacy/Confidentiality.

    Are you now going to address valid concerns so previously raised.

    Please do so by Friday next 26th October 2012

    Have a great day

    Henry
  • gnome4766gnome4766 Member
    edited July 2013

    As I am quite clearly not a lawyer,I am unable to advise and thus suggest you take advise from a suitably qualified professional

    Not a lawyer? Yet he tries to portray an in depth knowledge of slander, libel and privacy laws? I know a certain someone who could do with some professional advice his name is Henry Jame m.p.
  • david_barradavid_barra Charter Member
    evmo said:



    To be perfectly frank and honest Evan, the manner in which you communicate indicates the quality of your intelligence and really warrants no further comment.

    In America, quantity always trumps quality........
    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
  • NiekNiek Member

    Henry Jame m.p. writes:
    As I am quite clearly not a lawyer,I am unable to advise and thus suggest you take advise from a suitably qualified professional such as your attorney regards laws SPECIFICALLY relating to IP/Privacy/Confidentiality.

    So who does he think he is to demand -for reasons of presumed slander- that the posts be deleted. misselijk persoontje
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin

    evmo said:



    To be perfectly frank and honest Evan, the manner in which you communicate indicates the quality of your intelligence and really warrants no further comment.

    In America, quantity always trumps quality........
    Gosh, I thought he was complimenting me?!

  • david_barradavid_barra Charter Member
    evmo said:


    Gosh, I thought he was complimenting me?!

    I think he was... as per the reason I posted.
    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited July 2013
    An analysis from a friend who is schooled in literary criticism, meaning therefore (s)he must know something of Henry James.
    This thread is just fascinating. I'm obsessed. Little did I know, when I clicked on a strange but innocent-seeming link in your Twitter feed ("Who is Henry James?"), that I would plunge down such an absurd rabbit hole.

    The elephant in the room (which forum contributors have alluded to but not explicitly mentioned, for obvious legal reasons) is that the Henry James emails were CLEARLY authored by [name redacted by admin] . Aside from the circumstantial evidence of motive and location, and the utter flimsiness of the fake identity ("Henry James"? Reachable at "henry [dot] james70 [at] yahoo"?), there's the fact that [redacted] and Henry have the same fucked-up writing style. Both misuse articles, commas, impersonal pronouns, and prepositions (especially "unto") in distinctive ways. And both waver between desperate hyperbole and rageful sarcasm.

    All of which makes Henry's repeated assertions that "Julie is away" quite hilarious. Tragically hilarious.
  • WalterWalter Member
    edited July 2013
    Speaking of the way certain person/s write/s, what is with the use of the phrase "on butterfly" to describe how one swam a particular event? For example, Walter completed the swim on butterfly, rather than Walter completed the swim using butterfly. Is on butterfly (or on freestyle, on backstroke etc.) idiomatic or otherwise a thing in the UK or at least in Loughborough, Leicestershire?

    This is a serious question, by the way, not a new way to make fun of this/these person/s (although I do appreciate and support the direction of this thread, whether or not originally intended).
    I'm not very popular around here; but I'm huge in Edinburgh!
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013

    misselijk persoontje

    sorry. not even close, immpo.

    the brilliance of mutha phucka, depending on your interpretation, is the image of so and so* polishing off another, er, trump, signing their name, then doing a fist pump while exclaiming mutha phucka, i am, i am!

    * substitute the name of your choice, such as the name any of the repliers herein or herein mentioned. ok nearly any. certainly not mine.

    still lmao,

    oxo m.p. (mutha-phucka-fist pump, i am, i am)
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013
    @Walter - perhaps it is a reference to On Stlye and intended as a clue to the true face underlying this, er, entertaining and illuminating thread. So I ask, could 'Henry James' be Susan Sontag? It would make some sense, and if not it would be dashingly fit given all this other nonsense. For example, she'd be writing from the other side, a place worshiped by all channel swimmers. Hmmmh, maybe. Also, a certain someone keeps referring to Henry James as an 'entity' as if HJ is a ghost. Maybe the two are in cahoots and we're just being duped. For example, maybe HJ is faking demonhood in a covert attempt at right wing coalition building. There's nothing like rallying around evil. Proof: the oft cited Jan 29, 2002 Axis-of-Evil speech by a certain Mary McAleese. Or, proof: read up on social psychology. Haidt for example. Hey! Wow! Sontag and McAleese are both female. What are the chances! Who else here is evil. Yes! YES! Dianna Nyad. Three females! Woohoo! Nyad went to college in the same city as Sontag. Score! Go barf at that! Wait, wait, another certain 4-letter someone here used to blog from that city! Proof, I claim. That's proof. Hey, I've read Haidt and I used to live in that city - Nyad could have been my babysitter! Proof-cubed! Who else here is evil? Ah, the King herself. And she's from Texas, another font of axis-of-evilers. Plus she DVM'd in the Caribbean -- we all know what evil swims there. This is too much. I'm about to faint, dear me. Opie, run and fetch Andy.

    oxo, m.p.

    URGENT EDIT: I've recovered. Andy pointed out that King brings the number of evil women to 4, and ELO rhymes with that certain 4-letter ... wait ... it's coming back ... i can hear it now ... i'm dancing ... and singing ... You've made a fool of me but them broken dreams have got to end. ... and dancing ... and lmao.

    oxo, misogynistic philistine

    ----
    note: this post has a lot of sarcasm in it, or a lot of some other word.
  • gregocgregoc Member
    So, so very sad.
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013
    gregoc said:

    So, so very sad.

    couldn't agree more.
  • david_barradavid_barra Charter Member
    Forum masterbation should be discouraged.
    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013
    ifthat'showyoufeelyourself,thenbyallmeansconsiderthisadiscouragement
  • ChickenOSeaChickenOSea Charter Member
    edited July 2013
    I thought the Henry James letters were funny. I would love this thread if it did not involve real people. yes, we're all aware of the elephant in the room.

    I feel a bit guilty about enjoying this thread so much.

    I don't personally know the target of this public vilification (regardless of whether it is deemed to have been deserved!), but i assume that everyone here who has commented does.

    Having read all those letters from Henry James I think maybe it's time to lay off it. I love a good bitch fight but if one side is deficient then maybe it's just bullying. I dunno :(


    EDIT: I edited this post @loneswimmer
  • ChickenOSeaChickenOSea Charter Member
    I know I'm a complete bitch. But when even I feel guilty about publicly vilifying someone who clearly lacks the mental or physical ability to defend themselves, maybe it's time to stop. At least in the public forum. I mean, I was entertained but very embarrassed by those Henry James letters :(
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013

    maybe it's time to lay off it.

    couldn't agree more.

    yet another thread that doesn't help the religion image.

    to whom it may concern: it may not be obvious but my posts have never been directed at the outed and allied. rather, they're directed at the outings and its allies, aka, the co-OPs and their supporters, and were so before I knew of the intrigue.
  • david_barradavid_barra Charter Member
    oxo said:

    maybe it's time to lay off it.

    couldn't agree more. it may not be obvious but my posts have never been directed at the outed and allied. rather, they're directed at the bully himself, aka, evmo ... and his cast of cronies herespoken.
    ...and you’ve insulted Susan Sontag in the process. I hope you’re happy now.
    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013

    ...and you’ve insulted Susan Sontag in the process. I hope you’re happy now.

    she rolled over and gave me a kiss, if you must know.
  • ChickenOSeaChickenOSea Charter Member
    edited July 2013
    Who gives a fuck. Anyone that knows me knows I love a good fight, but not when one side isn't equal to it, and clearly one side here isn't up to it. Not my opinion. I've got no idea. I've dealt with a lot of bullying in the last few years and this qualifies.
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013
    nearly all contributors to this thread are from the US. what are the country stats for hits on this thread? compared to the forum overall?
  • ChickenOSeaChickenOSea Charter Member
    Most of the people ON this thread are US. No matter. I'm just generally such a shithead that when even I feel bad about something, maybe enough is enough.
  • oxooxo New Member
    edited July 2013
    enough was enough a long time ago

    dang, and it didn't even break 100.
  • ChickenOSeaChickenOSea Charter Member
    Huh? I'm not interested in you
  • loneswimmerloneswimmer Admin
    edited July 2013
    I closed this thread without speaking with @evmo. I ony saw the continuation in the middle of the night here and didn't have time to write an explanation. I would have wished to have closed it earlier but at the same time, it would have been difficult as it would have looked like a reaction to criticisms of the Admins. I was also hoping it would return to a better balance.

    Moderating is difficult & that's with a few years practice. Trying to find a balance between reducing tensions and allowing discussion means moderators inevitably have to make ongoing judgement calls. That's why it's called moderation and I can only try to get the balance right, not guarantee it. I believed and still do that there is important information in this thread but that has become increasingly obscured. If you have a relevant or cogent comment you wish to add PM me and I'll consider adding them, though I won't add any more attacks and I am in a different timezone to most of you commenting.
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited July 2013
    Forum member @david_barra gave permission to post the following comment:
    As one who cares pretty strongly about NYC Swim, CS&PF and this forum, I think all the charges against JB are fair game.
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited July 2013
    Some final thoughts on this very interesting episode in the forum's history. Thanks to @loneswimmer for the timely moderation while I was occupied with a Catalina observation.

    @loneswimmer said, and I strongly agree:
    I believed and still do that there is important information in this thread but that has become increasingly obscured.
    It was probably inevitable that the thread would derail, given the subject matter. And @loneswimmer was right to short-circuit it when he did. No need to post what remains of the Henry James oeuvre - it would only serve to further obscure.

    But it's worth remembering what was important about this thread in the first place. @loneswimmer wrote an excellent summary here, but I'll simplify it even further:
    • The Secretary of the CSA - the oldest marathon swimming organization in the world - continues to claim a "world record" that is not recognized by the local sanctioning body (NYC Swim), thereby undermining the mutual trust and assumption of integrity that supports the global marathon swimming community.
    • There is compelling circumstantial evidence that the CSA Secretary sent (or had sent on her behalf) threatening messages to the owner of this website (me), in an apparent attempt to stifle discussion of her ongoing dispute with NYC Swim.
    • These messages, from "Henry James," were written in a manner that many would interpret, on first glance, as carrying legal authority.
    • Other individuals and organizations in the global marathon swimming community, including (but not limited to) NYC Swim, have received similar threatening communications from "Henry James," indicating a pattern of abusive, bullying behavior.

    Anyone that knows me knows I love a good fight, but not when one side isn't equal to it, and clearly one side here isn't up to it.... I've dealt with a lot of bullying in the last few years and this qualifies.

    imageSorry, but I disagree. Responding aggressively to bullying is not bullying. The person allegedly responsible for these messages is not a helpless puppy. She is highly educated, gives public lectures, is sufficiently mentally competent to run the CSA and a successful coaching business, sits on her local city council, was given an honorary doctorate and knelt before Prince Charles.

    If she is responsible for these messages, then (based on the above) I think she is capable of dealing with the push-back.

    As for @oxo: Misogyny? Seriously? And your evidence is... that I have criticized Diana Nyad in the past? Easy to throw bombs when you're anonymous, I guess. Contrarianism for the sake of contrarianism = so tiresome. You've seen Portlandia, I assume?

    Reading the Henry James emails retrospectively - as you all have just done - it's an obvious bluff. At the time of the first message, it was not at all obvious. There were clues, but it wasn't clear until later in the conversation. Initially, it was actually quite distressing. As it was for Morty and NYC Swim; as it was for other Henry James "victims" who preferred not to be included on this thread.

    Nobody likes to be threatened with lawsuits. Even @oxo, I bet. People in positions of power who abuse that power to intimidate others should be held accountable for their behavior. It's really as simple as that.
This discussion has been closed.