110 miles, 53 hours: Questions for Diana Nyad

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  • 98 miles in 48 hours ????? Where on earth did that come from? Thats 2 miles an hour with no stops. Has any one added up the stop time ? Even 5 minutes rest per hour would equal 98 miles in 44 hours, which equals 2.23 miles per hour. I doubt Diana could swim 2.23 miles in one hour, just once, let alone 48 hours back to back.

    Eitherway, I guess in the 48 hours, Diana rested more like 15 minutes an hour, therefore, maybe 7 or 8 hours overall rest. So maybe 98 miles in 40 hours of swimming, which equals 2 & 3/4 miles per hour. Unbelievable.

    And there lies the issue with Diana. None of her swims stand up to the simplest scrutiny. And it doesnt help when titled and professional people simply say "she did it". Otherwise those same people would say Diana did a 48 hour swim, and we are supposed to believe them. Sorry, I cannot believe Diana did a 48 hour swim. (maybe she did a 40 hour swim). I cannot believe Diana swam 98 miles, (maybe she covered 56 miles).

    What I can't believe the most was why nobody was asked to count the lengths?
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited October 2013
    Haydn said:

    98 miles in 48 hours ????? Where on earth did that come from?

    Sadly, it came from Reuters, considered a quite reputable news service.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/10/us-usa-nyad-swim-idUSBRE9990ZT20131010

    Reading the article again, it actually says 96 miles rather than 98. Either way, it's ludicrous. Also, I can guarantee that if any journalist actually fact-checks this, the Xtreme Dream Team will quickly back-pedal and pass it off as a "misunderstanding."
  • Don't forget that the 48 hour pool swim was a fundraising stunt. You really can't fault her for not following the rules that DN set for herself beforehand, the long breaks, and her switching into a wetsuit in 85+ degree water because she got cold at night. It was all for a good cause. The 800+K investment raised over 104K for a good cause.
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsMember
    edited October 2013
    as I wrote on forum discussion A 48 hour swim in Manhattan
    Around the 24 hour mark I watched for a few minutes and she was swimming a tempo of
    1,094 km/hour = 0 mi 1197.0 yd/hour
    in 48 hours that would give 32 mi = 28.36 nmi if she would swim without breaks.
    I watched more often than described here and her tempo was almost always the same. So her total distance will have been under ~30 nmi ( ~35 miles, ~55 km)
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsMember
    edited October 2013
    http://www.diananyad.com/blog/48-Tough-Hours Bonnie had an idea. She remembered from the second night of the Cuba swim, when I was having similar mental problems, Niko the shark diver would swim in front of me for a bit, holding a neon green light and coax me to swim toward him.
    http://cspf.co.uk/cs-and-pf-rules (p) During solo swims a swimmer may be accompanied in the water by 1 person only & not accompanied at all until after the first 3 hours. This accompaniment will be for a maximum of 1 hour & cannot be repeated until at least 2 hours have elapsed after the cessation of the accompaniment.
    The second swimmer may swim alongside, but not in front, of the solo aspirant & must not impede the solo swimmer.
    Another violation of the rules. You betrayed yourself Diana.
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited October 2013
    A compilation of ABC News coverage of the Diana Nyad swim & controversy:
    http://www.marathonswimmers.org/nyad-abc/

    A compilation of CNN coverage of the Diana Nyad swim & controversy:
    http://www.marathonswimmers.org/nyad-cnn/

    A compilation of NBC News coverage of the Diana Nyad swim & controversy:
    http://www.marathonswimmers.org/nyad-nbc/
  • mjstaplesmjstaples Atlanta, GA, USMember
    Over a month later and still no real data but she claims to want "transparency"! C'mon, just ridiculous
  • AngelYanagiharaAngelYanagihara Temporary Suspension

    Dear Forum Members,

    It is not my responsibility to provide you my data-videos, images etc. You are not an official body of any sort. I am just a team member, I am not a leader so I am also not willing to act as team liason. I have simply tried to make you globally aware of the inaccuracies you appear to hold tightly. My "reputation" has nothing to do with this swim. I provided expertise to Diana out of goodwill. I was not paid. I do not appreciate the pack attack mentality here. If you need to continue on your "guilty until PROVEN innocent" routine and REFUSE to listen to first hand accounts -then by all means, lads, continue this. I have exhausted any interest I had in providing you with even my general observations recently pejoratively labeled "vague". I have absolutely no intention of providing data to this forum after the goings on here. I do intend to provide these to the Swim Archives that Steve Munatones and others have mentioned exists in Ft Lauderdale. You all are welcomed to go there and peruse my historical records at your own cost. This type of "forum" based cyberbullying and pack mentality of hatred is tiresome and causes me personally to feel upset and discouraged. I realize at this point I should have listened to the wise counsel of others who told me not to engage here. I naively believed that communication would be helpful but it is clear now that despite all the time and efforts expended here there is only an increased level of animosity.

    Seriously, we are all devoted to the sport of ocean swimming. I am genuinely worried about loss of life due to jellyfish envenomations. There have been many deaths in this sport. Cardiac arrest during a swim in a healthy adult can clearly be due to the effects of jellyfish venom. My point in responding to Diana's first email to me out of the blue was to be of service to her as I am generally obliged to do if a member of the public requests assistance related to my federally funded research. Spending time on this forum does nothing to advance my research efforts and it seems only to fuel increasing levels of antipathy so I must stop now despite the ongoing taunts and baiting.

    Take care out there folks and BE SAFE,

    A. Yanagihara
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    edited October 2013
    Doc,
    Please clarify on the many deaths you mention in our sport. I am aware of a recent shark attack but that's it. (Thank God!)
    Also, do you know if your client or any other of her crew are going to send their data to the archives?
    I repeat what I and many have said previously: if she had brought along 2 Observers, this thread wouldn't be approaching 800 comments.
    No one is bullying you. That is the realm of DN (I don't remember any of us calling you a troll).
  • edited October 2013
    A. Yanagihara,

    If others on Ms. Nyad’s team advised you not to engage this forum because they knew there are not rational answers to fundamental questions, from a Ms. Nyad team perspective they were right.
    (I admit that I don't have enough information to know, but the more I learn about this swim and Ms. Nyad’s other activities, the more I believe it is a story.)

    Trying to discredit someone by refuting an unstated claim is a tactic. No one claimed this forum was an official body.
    (It is however, a world-wide collection of some of the best marathon swimmers in the world. (I am not one of them.))

    Referencing “inaccuracies” without identifying them is a tactic.
    (This discussion started with questions, not statements. It has only turned to statements when no answers to the questions were forthcoming.)

    You are the person making the bold assertion that “she did it” (without the ability to answer basic questions). No one here bullied you into making that statement.

    Making a claim of cyberbullying when none is occurring is a tactic.

    Referencing “hatred” when none exists is a tactic.

    Your use of “lads” is a tactic. Dismissive at the same time implying that this is a male/ female issue.

    You publicly offered to provide "data-videos" and you are now stating it is not your responsibility. This is a tactic.

    You have been representing the team, yet now (faced with questions you cannot address) you state you are not a liaison or leader. This is a tactic.

    Focusing on a single inflammatory word (guilty) instead of addressing the bigger issues is a tactic.

    Stating that you are not being listened to when tactics are not working... is a tactic.

    Until you accept that Ms. Nyad’s team has not provided the normal and customary information provided by marathon swimmers, you will remain frustrated with this forum. Tactics will not change that.
  • @ ironmike,
    Unfortunately Susan Taylor died while attempting the English Channel this year.
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/15/world/europe/channel-swimmer-death/

    I have not heard of any connection to jellies.
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    edited October 2013
    @AnthonyMcCarley, yes, I know about her and Paraic (sp?), but I think the good doctor was inferring (wait, implying? I can never get those straight) that there have been many deaths in open water swimming due to ocean creatures.
    @AngelYanagihara said: I am genuinely worried about loss of life due to jellyfish envenomations. There have been many deaths in this sport.
    Sad though it is (and I wish those swimmers RIP and for their families to find peace), but two EC deaths and the one recently from a shark attack cannot be deemed many.
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsMember
    @AngelYanagihara I do intend to provide these to the Swim Archives that Steve Munatones and others have mentioned exists in Ft Lauderdale.
    If you wait long enough it might not be possible any more. source
    You're welcome to use it as a new excuse.
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • Something occurred to me a few week ago and I haven't mentioned it anywhere to now, out of respect for @AngelYanigahara.

    In her posts she has frequently cited her concern over the safety of swimmers and even the ethics of allowing a swimmer into dangerous waters (though all water is dangerous as we know better than most). In her second-last post above she did so again and mentioned how she was obliged to help any member of the public who contacted her. She had often mentioned fatalities, (often indirectly implying this was something we here don't care about as much as she).

    @Chloemccardeldotcom didn't contact @AngelYanigahara for assistance. Yet we do know that @Angel Yanigahara did contact members of @Chloe's team to make sure they weren't using any of her (Angel's) product. In fact, I've been told by a reputable source, that she threatened legal action if they were using it (they weren't).

    So we consequently also know that @AngelYanigahara, apparently confident of her new sting formulation, didn't reach out to ensure that @Chloe, about who she directly expressed concern here, was using her product, which I would imagine you would do if a) you were sure of its efficacy and b) as concerned for all swimmers as espoused.

    Maybe unless you were part of a team that saw volunteers for other swims as traitors, and wished other swimmers would fail so you could maximise your financial benefits?

    Further, in the realm of pure speculation, could it be that a high profile media swim is the best way of eliciting further research funding or even to transition to a well-marketed end product? Research which btw, we here are all interested in and would all benefit from in an end product, as we would from any other competing but less well advertised product?

    These are the kinds of question for which I have the Diana Nyad team to thank, having never asked them before of anyone or even considered them.

    As Deep Throat says in All the President's Men, "follow the money".
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin

    I do intend to provide these to the Swim Archives that Steve Munatones and others have mentioned exists in Ft Lauderdale.

    You mean the International Swimming Hall of Fame? The same organization whose leader, Richard Mullins, slandered Walter Poenisch in 1978, on behalf of Diana Nyad?

    What is it they say about lying down with dogs?
  • david_barradavid_barra Charter Member
    edited October 2013

    Your use of “lads” is a tactic. Dismissive at the same time implying that this is a male/ female issue.

    This accusation by the Dream Team is quite offensive and has been played by many a DN supporter (just scroll through any comment thread) with zero evidence that this is a motivating factor of any non-believers.

    Pathetic... really, but perhaps an effective way to rally the troops and change the subject.
    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
  • HaydnHaydn Member
    edited October 2013
    So Dr Angel insists "she did it" and Reuters say she did 96 miles in a pool in 48 hours. So who do we believe? These two worthy sources? Just because they say so? Clearly Diana swam nowhere near 96 miles so how can we ever have any faith in her claims or those made by others in her behalf. UNLESS some of the stuff which Dr Angel says she has, and stuff Dream Team say they have, is divulged. Surely this stuff exists, because they say so. But as we see, just because world class bodies say so, is meaningless when what is said is so obviously inaccurate.

    I expect Dream Team have forensically examined their stuff and have found it wanting, otherwise why would they allow this debacle to continue when it could so easily be verified by publishing good data. Maybe the data doesn't exist, maybe the data doesn't answer the questions.

    Well, what a silly lady Diana is, to attempt such a fantastic swim and not have the basic documentation and independant evidences. How silly also, to blatantly defy the founding principles of long distance swimming, especially with the dubious claims of previous swims.

    We all owe it to our fellow competitors to pay much attention to such evidences when we undertake such world class events. It is such a shame that we cannot all support Diana in such an amazing swim just because she was rubbish at documenting it. That failure has robbed her of much that she deserved, had the evidences supported her swim without question.

    I am more upset about such a blatant disregard of documentation. It is not fair to other swimmers coming after her and it is not fair to Diana for (most on this forum) us to feel obliged to disbelieve her, if she really did do this swim.

  • Now those are notable swims!
  • I know this is old news but I had a thought yesterday while heading out on my morning swim in the ocean. The water temp has begun to drop a bit and the air is beginning to feel like fall. It dawned on me as I was dreading 'winter ocean swimming' that Diana wore 2 swim suits once she was assisted into her stinger suit. Yet another example of a blatant rule violation. Can anyone think of any marathon swim that allows a swimmer to double up on swim suits? She could have taken off her swim suit prior to being assisted into her stinger suit (Penny did and put on her stinger suit by herself with zero assistance) but chose not to for whatever reason. This is not a discussion about stinger suits but rather a swimmer ignoring fundamental swimsuit rules and wearing 2 suits at once.
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited November 2013
    AP: Key West considers monument to Diana Nyad [LINK]

    AP reporter Jennifer Kay predicted "rage" on the Forum [LINK], so please don't fulfill her prediction.
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    Funny, I thought the $850,000 pool to raise a little over $100,000 for charity was the "monument" to all things Nyad. ;)
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsMember
    edited November 2013
    People can only be canonized after their death. Isn't that supposed to be so? Did I miss something?
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • danslosdanslos Member
    edited November 2013
    If you get Showtime, it's your lucky night/month:
    "The Other Shore: The Diana Nyad Story."
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsMember
    @ danslos You're serious?
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • Yeah I am skimming through her movie now....
  • Her movie does not show any footage of her recent swim this summer, only the finish.
  • danslosdanslos Member
    edited November 2013
    @ danslos You're serious?
    No.
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    @Niek, @danslos is serious about the movie playing on Showtime tonight at 8pm EST. He's not serious about "it's your lucky night/month" ;)
  • @IronMike, you're absolutely right. Thanks for clarifying that. <*))̂)̖)>< :\">
  • Ok, I admit it, I receive AARP , the magazine.
    And guess who is "interviewed"...center of magazine. Agh... She has given "all the data to the review organization". And says she will go' Where ever needed to do more fundraising for those in need".. nb-- not an exact quote but generally that's the idea.
    Sigh.....
    I love swimming
    www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    I recorded her movie on Showtime with the intent of sacrificing myself for you all so you don't have to watch it. I will then do a review on my blog, pointing out the most important aspects of the film for you all.
    Stay tuned!
  • IronMikeIronMike Bishkek, KyrgyzstanCharter Member
    OMG! She's the freaking answer to final jeopardy today! They're gonna make her president next. When will she disappear into obscurity?
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited November 2013
    Here is an email that is being sent around to some members of our community (not me):
    On Monday, November 11, 2013, Manuel de Seixas Correa wrote:
    Dear ******,

    My name is Manuel de Seixas Correa and I am an Associate Producer working with Figura Media, a documentary production company based out of New York and with offices in Los Angeles and Brazil.

    We are currently working on a short form documentary for Vice Media, which explores the technology and science behind Diana Nyad’s swim from Cuba to Florida.

    We are looking for marathon swimmers who can give us an interesting perspective on Diana’s accomplishments. Our research has led us to you as a potential interview subject. We have come to learn that you are a highly accomplished member of the marathon swimming community and that you may have interesting opinions about Diana’s swim. I would love to be able to discuss your thoughts at your earliest convenience.

    I am cc’ing Thiago Da Costa, the main producer on the project. We would love to answer any questions you may have. We very much look forward to hearing from you. You can call me directly at 323-***-**** or please send me a number where I can reach you.

    Thank you for your time.

    Sincerely,

    Manuel de Seixas Correa
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    Just published today in the WSJ:

    Diana Nyad's Great Regret: Endurance Icon Once Attacked a Record Cuba-to-Florida Swim

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303559504579198073878055530
  • So she's only sorry now that she knows what it feels like to be labelled a cheat. How very insincere.
  • "What goes around comes around." From Beck's Laws #5.
  • JBirrrdJBirrrd Member
    edited November 2013
    Perfect. So when I'm 67, I am going to stare up into the sky and tell Diana I'm profusely sorry I questioned her Cuba swim (BUT only if someone says that it wasn't a very nice thing for me to do back when I was young and foolish.)
  • edited November 2013
    Ms. Nyad again does a masterful job of manipulation.

    Ms. Nyad framed the issue of her swim as only the use of the stinger suit – completely ignoring the bigger issues of how she was able to swim three times her normal speed for extended periods of time and that no publically available information supports her magical current claim. Never mentions that there are photos of her receiving buoyancy support and being touched. No explanation at all regarding her lack of credible Observers.

    She even frames EC rules as not credible.

    And anyone who challenges her is just jealous.

    It is disappointing that the writer allowed this to happen.

    Brilliant framing and manipulation. I admire Ms. Nyad’s abilities - just not her swimming or lack of integrity.
  • loneswimmerloneswimmer Admin
    edited November 2013
    Lance Armstrong: the analogy that continues to be applicable: After years of bullying and threats and even lawsuits, LA goes on Oprah to explain himself, his apology to Betsy Andreu and Emma O'Reilly, whom he sued and called a prostitute, only comes after he has been caught and is done to the media, not in person but as part of the great story. He insults Betsy Andreu in the process like DN covertly does in that article.
  • bobswimsbobswims Charter Member
    Speaking of Lance:

    "Armstrong claims the former head of world cycling knew about his drug abuse and encouraged him to cover up his doping. He says the then president of the UCI, Verbruggen, was complicit in the skulduggery that allowed him to continue in the 1999 Tour de France despite a positive drugs test."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2509002/LANCE-ARMSTRONG-WORLD-EXCLUSIVE-UCI-helped-cheat-way-Tour-France-titles.html
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsMember
    edited November 2013
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • Ruminating on this ( yet again) and I guess my question , for myself as well as DN,
    " what do you want your legacy to be"?
    I try to do things in such a way that will ameliorate any "legacy " I might have.
    I doubt that is how DN is acting. I also doubt that is how LA acting.
    Life is short, your legacy hopefully is one that will make you proud or at least satisfied.
    I love swimming
    www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com
  • I thought that I was over this until the last episode of TV's "Grimm". A race of mer-people, conveniently called "Nyads". The mere mention of the name turned my stomach.
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsMember
    edited November 2013
    Can someone swim between Cuba and Florida under English Channel rules? Do you think we will see someone swim from Cuba to Florida with only a swimsuit, swim cap and goggles? Within 50 years from now, will the Straits of Florida be crossed?

    "No, I do not think the open water swimming community will see someone swim from Cuba to Florida under the rules of the English Channel; with only a porous swimsuit, swim cap, goggles, and earplugs. Besides the financial costs and logistical obstacles that this 103-mile stretch of water presents, the swimmer will also have to face the probability of encountering box jellyfish.

    Unless this person has a unique body chemistry that somehow makes them impervious to the venom of the box jellyfish or they get extraordinarily lucky and avoid these types of jellyfish and everything else out there during their swim, then I cannot see how it can be done. Sharks are such a minor concern compared with the pain and paralysis that comes with stings by the box jellyfish that the swimmer will have to face at least for one night, probably two and possibly three nights."

    "If they can avoid the box jellyfish, then the right kind of swimmer has a good chance for success. That swimmer will have the psychological toughness and endurance of Penny Penny, the fierce determination and pain tolerance of Diana Nyad and the raw speed and track record of Chloë McCardel, and the survival mentality of Skip Storch.
    http://dailynews.openwaterswimming.com/2013/11/within-50-years-will-it-be-crossed.html
    DN high pain tolerance had nothing to do with her last crossing
    She had no trouble with jellyfish in her last swim and that was no thanks to her suit.
    They simply didn’t came into her path.

    Steven Munatones is avoiding the main point I think by not mentioning the need of an alleged existing North Current.
    Without that current her whole race was impossible in the time she did it.
    I still don’t believe that current was there that day. Where is the promised proof?
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • I thought that I was over this until the last episode of TV's "Grimm". A race of mer-people, conveniently called "Nyads". The mere mention of the name turned my stomach.

    FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naiad
  • NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsMember
    For the record.
    3 months have passed and I still haven't seen the promised -by DN herself at the conference- proof.
    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/nyad-defends-herself-skeptics-cuba-fla-swim-0 After the call, Evan Morrison, co-founder of the online Marathon Swimmers Forum, said Nyad and her team addressed most of the issues that concerned the members of the forum.
    He was pleased by Nyad's pledge that all the observations and notes taken by her navigator, John Bartlett, and two official observers of the swim will be made available for public examination.
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • NiekNiek Heiloo, NetherlandsMember
    edited December 2013
    http://diananyad.com
    Welcome to
    diananyad.com
    This domain registration expired on 12/10/2013.
    Do you own this domain? Renew It Now!
    All good/bad 'evidence' gone?
    No! One can still find some on https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://diananyad.com
    http://openwaterswimming.eu - Cold, wind, waves, sunburn, currents, jellyfish and flotsam! Hop in and join the fun!
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    At this point it seems clear the promised documentation is not forthcoming. And if she/they actually released something now, 3 months after the fact, would you believe it?

    Diana Nyad utterly lacks credibility. I'm not sure what more there is to discuss.
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