Openwater swim records
paulm
Senior Member
Hi All, Chloe & I have been looking at a few options for her to swim over the next couple of years (all ocean/open water point to point - some under 50kilometer some close to 100k and above ). I am interested in people's thoughts if
a) Chloe was to do say a 100k swim (no stinger suit ) and following MSF rules (Noting Penny's 108 K record Cayman Island swim in a stinger suit- Openwaterpedia )......Could this swim be considered a record & if so what name or title would you attach to this
b) Same as a above but say a distance of 115 K
Thanks in advance
Paul
a) Chloe was to do say a 100k swim (no stinger suit ) and following MSF rules (Noting Penny's 108 K record Cayman Island swim in a stinger suit- Openwaterpedia )......Could this swim be considered a record & if so what name or title would you attach to this
b) Same as a above but say a distance of 115 K
Thanks in advance
Paul
Comments
a). So, you're asking if a 100k swim "without a stinger suit" would/should be considered as breaking Penny's 108k "with stinger suit"?
And presumably it would be titled, "Longest open ocean swim, 'without stinger suit'..."?
Is that clarification is accurate?
On the one hand, I'd prefer that MSF not get into the business of "judging" swims of the past. On the other hand, I think swimmers (such as Chloe or Jamie) who wish to undertake ambitious swims while using MSF Rules, deserve some sort of guidance about what claims they can legitimately make. Inevitably, this guidance must proceed from some sort of judgment about what the authentic records are in the various swim categories (and also what the relevant categories are in the first place).
Any members of the Forum community with ideas on how to approach this thorny issue are encouraged to come forward!
Thanks Evan, Agree the issue is a little thorny and we welcome ideas please
…I believe you have a few choices.
One, only keep records of swims submitted to MSF after the release of MSF Rules.
Two, keep records of all swim submissions to MSF even if the swims were completed before the release of the MSF Rules. Please note, for this option I am suggesting you only attempt to ratify swims that are submitted to MSF – not try to become forensic swimming historians. You would probably have to have three outcome categories: “Unassisted”, “Assisted”, and “Not enough information to Ratify.” Most likely, most swims would fall into the third category because of lack of documentation reasons.
Three, you become swimming historians and decide which historic swims are benchmarks that meet MSF standards even if they are not submitted to MSF.
All three options are only for non-organizational swims - it would add a layer of unneeded confusion if MSF were to try to keep records for any already standardized organizational swims; such as, CSA and MIMS.
This is a thorny issue... Good luck!
Fresh Water
Moving Water (river)
Salt Water
Male; Female (maybe?)
Attire (Traditional, Protective, Enhancing?)
Distance
Duration
Latitude (tropical as a separate category?)
Opinions? (I got mine)
...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
First, we can throw out all river swims (current aided), which constitute many of the very longest swims, as listed recently by Steve on DNOWS:
http://dailynews.openwaterswimming.com/2014/02/where-will-jamie-patrick-stand-in_19.html?m=1
With the river swims thrown out, we can limit our analysis to open-ocean or lake swims, of which the longest are the following:
1. Veljko Rogošić (2006). 139.8 miles (225km) from Grado to Riccione in the Adriatic Sea. 50 hours, 10 minutes (2.79 mph).
This is the swim listed by the Guinness Book as the "longest distance ever swum without flippers in open sea."
I asked Steve, who advises the Guinness Book on open water swimming, what sort of documentation exists about this swim. I figured since it's listed in the Guinness Book, and since the swim took place in the relatively recent past, that there must be documentation. Long story short, he was not able to provide any. Steve is welcome to come on the Forum and explain this further if he wants.
Even disregarding the documentation issue, this swim seems obviously current-aided with an average speed of nearly 2.8mph (4.5 kph). And indeed, there are strong, predictable currents in the Adriatic. So I think we have to throw this one out.
2. Martin Strel (1994). 100 miles (162km) in the Adriatic Sea. 55 hours, 11 minutes (1.81 mph).
Another Adriatic swim - so also quite likely significantly aided by currents.
(Parentheticaly: Should there be a threshold for current assistance, similar to wind in Track & Field? Obviously currents are present in any large body of water, including lakes. Where should the line be drawn between the big, predictable currents of the Adriatic, and the smaller, less predictable currents of, say, Lake Michigan?)
3. Zhang Jian (2000). 76.5-mile (123km) crossing of Bohai Bay, China. 50 hours, 22 minutes (1.52 mph).
Assuming this swim was done legitimately (traditional attire, etc.), I think this looks like the one to beat. But personally I know nothing about Zhang Jian, nothing about Bohai Bay, and nothing about what documentation may or may not exist. The speed (1.52mph) seems believable.
4. Penny Palfrey (2011). 67.2 miles (100.5km) from Little Cayman to Grand Cayman, Caribbean Sea. 40 hours, 41 minutes (1.65 mph).
The facts of this swim are relatively well-known, compared to the other swims, because the people involved (Penny, Chris, Steve, Richard Clifford) are all part of our community and reasonably known quantities.
Her speed (1.65mph) provides an interesting baseline, because we all know that Penny is a very fast swimmer. I wouldn't be surprised if she swims twice as fast as Martin Strel in flat water. So keep this in mind when thinking about other swims.
And there is the issue of the stinger suit.
5. Vicki Keith (1987). 64-mile (103km) two-way crossing of Lake Ontario. 56 hours, 10 minutes (1.14 mph).
This swim is probably the closest of the five to a "pure," traditional-attire swim. The swimmer and the body of water are known quantities. A beastly swim, no doubt about it. Not a point-to-point swim, though, so I guess that puts it in a different category than what Chloe & Paul are considering.