110 miles, 53 hours: Questions for Diana Nyad

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  • evmoevmo SydneyAdmin
    edited January 2014
    Though it may not appear so at first glance, this article by Braden Keith at SwimSwam is kind of incredible... definitely unexpected, and ultimately vindicating of this Forum and this thread:

    http://swimswam.com/swimswam-2013-person-or-the-year/

    Excerpts:
    Diana Nyad's swim, whether legitimate or not, was the biggest newsmaker in swimming of 2013.

    This particular... award is not one that specifies ‘good’ or ‘bad’. Much in the mold of Time Magazine, we instead look at who was the biggest news-maker in swimming over the course of 2013, be it for something good or something bad.

    The evidence and arguments on both sides are rather convincing, and whenever money’s in play, the motive exists.

    It created questions over whether or not a personal profit was to be gained, and if that was enough to cause Nyad to fudge the rules. It created rifts in swimming. It created unity in swimming.
  • IronMike wrote:
    OK, just saw some dumb-a$$ commercial for Bing that showed DN and thanked her for "being brave and persevering" and included her in the same group as women serving in combat.

    AAHHHH!!!!

    I will not use Bing now.


    Why the hell would anyone use Bing in the first place? ;)

  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    Because it is the default search in the horrible Windows 8 and I can't figure out how to change that. :((

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • evmoevmo SydneyAdmin
    edited January 2014
    Have you read @heart's blog yet? It is great. She is a law professor at University of California-Hastings, and like @KarenT is bringing a valuable scholarly perspective to the sport of marathon swimming.

    She has recently written a couple of interesting posts on the DN affair:

    http://humu-sapiens.blogspot.com/2013/11/wayward-swimmers-paper.html

    http://humu-sapiens.blogspot.com/2014/01/diana-v-lance-what-motivates-conformity.html
  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    Thanks @Niek.

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • heartheart San Francisco, CACharter Member
    Thanks for the hat tip, @evmo. I'm hard at work on the paper and hope to be done in a few days. It's turning out to be really interesting. I'll be happy to share the draft here and on the blog when it's finished.

    One thing I'm finding out reading marathon swimming historiographies and memoirs is that, during the "golden age" of marathoning competitions, between the '60s and '70s, there seemed to be a strong prevalent notion of the rules, accompanied by a "no big deal" attitude toward them. Penny Dean, when retelling her Golden Gate swim in 1965, says matter-of-factly that she was cold, touched the boat, and was promptly DQ'd. Her discussion of the rules in her manual is mostly in the competition context (where they arguably matter more) and she basically concludes as follows: (1) There are rules about not kicking and hitting other swimmers. (2) They are not enforced and people do whatever they want. (3) Since there's no enforcement, you have to learn how to deal with it. (4) Let me teach you some retaliation techniques.

    That pretty much sums up any discussion of integrity and rule compliance in the sport in her manual.

    Now parsing through Lynne Cox's manual and Conrad Wennerberg's historiography. The latter, interestingly, includes some incredible photographic footage of mythological Middle Eastern distance swimmers from the 40s and 50s (in Egypt and Syria, these marathon swimmers are national heroes, per the book Zeitoun), showing them supported by family and friends with their feet still in the water. Apparently, there was strong conformism to the spirit and ethic of the sport, and people didn't sweat the small stuff.

    More to come.
  • heartheart San Francisco, CACharter Member
    Here's the newest installment, which includes the gist of what will eventually be the analysis in the piece.

    http://humu-sapiens.blogspot.com/2014/01/deviance-social-control-and-swimming.html

    Now, to do the write-up. Happy to get comments/questions/insights.
  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member
    edited August 2016
    http://thehumanist.org/january-february-2014/the-oprah-nyad-affair/

    Wonder and awe without the old bearded guy?

    I’ll cast my vote for DN on this one.

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member
    While this thread may have little relevance to swimming, your post is from leftfield (sorry I don’t have a futball analogy)
    This is certainly an example of DN not pandering to the Oprah audience but as the author notes equating atheism and spirituality does indeed seem wishy-washy to some.

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • SuirThingSuirThing Carrick-on-Suir, IrelandMember
    edited January 2014
    what did the atheist Channel swimmer say when his pilot boat sank in the separation zone?

    "oh god in which I refuse to believe; why have you forsaken me?"

    I tried to convince myself, but, orange flavour electrolyte, mixed with hot chocolate,
    tastes nothing like Terry's Chocolate Orange ....

  • loneswimmerloneswimmer IrelandCharter Member
    edited January 2014
    @SuirThing Rubbish. I've seen the bottom of a boat in the Channel. While it wasn't sinking, it wasn't the angle from which one would want to see their pilot boat. Not then, nor any other time in my life, nor in any other foxhole, has it ever even occurred to me to ask the question @SuirThing postulates.

    Per what @david_barra asks, as an open water swimmer & atheist, I feel lucky to be able to experience the almost ineffable wonder of the universe and the connection we all feel in the sea, regardless of our credo or lack thereof.

    And I do so without once using the word mystical.

    loneswimmer.com

  • SuirThingSuirThing Carrick-on-Suir, IrelandMember
    the above joke is loosely based on a line from the TV series "The Big Bang Theory"

    no offence intended to atheists anywhere

    I tried to convince myself, but, orange flavour electrolyte, mixed with hot chocolate,
    tastes nothing like Terry's Chocolate Orange ....

  • loneswimmerloneswimmer IrelandCharter Member
    Thanks to a forum member, here's DN's reddit IAMA.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1waqka/i_am_the_world_record_swimmer_diana_nyad_ask_me/

    Far too late when I saw it, but I've left a response here.

    loneswimmer.com

  • westwest Member
    edited May 2014
    Far too late when I saw it, but I've left a response here.
    Your response was very good.

    But my favorite question asked of Diana was: "who are you?"
  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    The reason why my swim is called, "The First Person to Swim from Cuba to Florida without a Shark Cage" isn't really to make the point that our team was willing to take the risk of being attacked by a shark out there, though that risk was certainly in play. The reason we qualified this swim as without a shark cage is because we had no assistance in moving forward faster than my own ability. I just didn't want an asterisk next to my name on this record and a shark cage would have required that asterisk.


    hahahahaha

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    edited October 2023
    I think I figured out how to get DN to answer your questions. I think you have to resubmit them, but start every question out with
    Your story is remarkable

    or
    you're an inspiration

    Seems she responds to questions when they begin with flattery.

    ;)

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • KevinKevin Member
    edited January 2014
    "eyes fogged over, ears covered with several layers of swim caps", .....
  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member
    Another DN obfuscation that continues to perplex me is:

    I heard her claim several times, with vim and vigor, on national news circuit shows that
    "all the complete evidence (captains logs, observers logs) have been submitted to the appropriate bodies..."

    Has anyone seen anything more than the initial, incomplete observer logs?
    As I recall, the one male observer posted something incomplete, and the other female observer posted "part 1 of 3" (and a written "summary" of her actual log, strangely) and nothing more.

    To watch DN make that bold faced lie and not one of these high profile, so-called journalists do a simple fact check is one the most egregious acts of 'uninspiring' moral/ethical breakdowns I've witnessed in my life!
    docshock
  • loneswimmerloneswimmer IrelandCharter Member
    As a long time redditor like @evmo, I think the later responses to what he and I posted in that thread went far better than expected and were more widely read also. Normally an IAMA is only alive for about 6 hours or read for maybe 10 to 12. Any external analysis of the thread will now show our counter-balancing comments and questions, which was my only purpose when I got there. Thanks to @ColmBreathnach for the heads-up.

    @DanSimonelli, you are of course correct, she has repeated those lies about providing proof everywhere and ad nauseum.

    @West my favourite question which occurred before we got there, but had been downvoted out of sight because of the celebrity-cult of the reddit IAMA, was "But didn't you cheat?".

    Think abut that. That's the result of this forum and everyone here. Random people have heard she's a cheat.

    loneswimmer.com

  • jvjjvj Charlotte, NCMember
    "I've thoroughly enjoyed watching you compete at the Olympic level as well as cheering you on during your Cuba swim."


    "...compete at the Olympic level"??? She was a mediocre swimmer at best. Nowhere near what anyone would consider "Olympic level".
  • danslosdanslos Los Angeles, CAMem​ber
    Hagiography of DN in the most recent issue of The New Yorker:

    "BREAKING THE WAVES: In her sixties, a swimmer revives an old dream."

    The author mentions no controversy/questions about the 2013 swim.

    -Daniel
  • JBirrrdJBirrrd MarylandSenior Member
    hagiography |ˌhagēˈägrəfē, ˌhāgē-| noun
    the writing of the lives of saints.

    Nice 50 cent word.
    Can't read the entire article as I don't subscribe to The New Yorker.
  • If the author has no mention of the controversy, it's not a good article or a complete picture. I swear that woman will do anything to stay in the press.
  • evmoevmo SydneyAdmin
    edited February 2014
    Here is a PDF of the Nyad profile in the current New Yorker:

    http://marathonswimmers.org/assets/nyad/Nyad_NewYorker.pdf

    (8.2MB download)
  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    Thank you @evmo.

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    OMG! I'm only one paragraph in and already I'm reeling. "...breaking the record by nearly an hour" talking about Manhattan. Ugh!

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    OK, finished page one. Took a while. What her last three Cuba-Florida swims that I've followed has done to me is that I feel I have to "fact check" every damn paragraph that these journalists are writing.

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • evmoevmo SydneyAdmin
    edited February 2014
    I have been a New Yorker subscriber continuously since my freshman year of college, and this is... disappointing.

    I encourage any forum member who feels inspired to write a Letter to the Editor:

    http://www.newyorker.com/contact/contactus
  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    @evmo, have you been fact-checking as you go? I'm getting tired of trying to check their facts. Find any errors? (N.B., I'm only on page 2.)

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    OK, now the article is getting gross.

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    So I think prednisone and oxygen count as "assisted." ;)

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    $350,000 is a lot of money in the 1970's?!?!?! It's a lot of freaking money NOW!

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member
    '...Stoll began to gather information: "Let's figure out the nutrition; let's write to people. But nobody really knows."
    What they wanted to do had never been accomplished by anyone, male or female, at any age.'

    I guess this New Yorker writer doesn't read the WSJ! Or she may have realized that DN had 'apologized' for her untoward actions against Walter Poenish...oh, and that someone else had swum from Cuba to FL!!

    These two publications have sorely disappointed.
    Merely "rags" to me now, lacking any real confidence in their journalistic integrity!
  • bobswimsbobswims Santa Barbara CACharter Member
    edited February 2014
    evmo wrote:

    You can't take this article seriously. The first sentence breaks my rule that no sentence shall exceed 50 words, (The rule itself is a joke because if a sentence is long enough that you find yourself counting the words, it is too long)
  • evmoevmo SydneyAdmin
    edited October 2023


  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member
    Sure does look like a wetsuit...
    JBirrrd

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • DanSimonelliDanSimonelli San Diego CASenior Member
    From the summary text under the video on the Motherboard site:

    "Before launching into any sport, it's important to know three things: the rules, the stakes, and when to quit. In the case of Diana Nyad, the resolute 64-year-old long-distance swimmer, acknowledging two out of three ain't bad."

    ;-)
  • bobswimsbobswims Santa Barbara CACharter Member
    After the competition is over, Diana will write up the rules and declare herself the winner.
  • loneswimmerloneswimmer IrelandCharter Member
    That's actually great. There have been some great Nat Geo Adventurer winners. Had Diana Nyad been associated with 2008 overall winner winner Sherpa Pemba Gyalje, I for one would have been sickened and it would have annoyed me far more than most of her stupid self-serving antics.

    loneswimmer.com

  • gregocgregoc Charter Member
    @loneswimmer, I was refering to the 2014 winner, Kilian Jornet.


    "Kilian Jornet, the 2014 People's Choice Adventurer of the Year, is redefining what is possible in the mountains by blurring the lines between trail running and technical climbing. In 2013, the 26-year-old Catalonian set a new speed record running up and down the Matterhorn in two hours and 52 minutes. He also set a record on Mont Blanc. These peaks are part of his four-year Summits of My Life project, in which Jornet will attempt new speed records on the world's most iconic mountains."
  • loneswimmerloneswimmer IrelandCharter Member
    edited March 2014
    Sorry @Gregoc I was at cross purposes there! Deleted my irrelevant non-sequitur!

    loneswimmer.com

  • bruckbruck San FranciscoMember
    Diana's official YouTube channel has been scrubbed:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/DianaNyad/featured
  • “When someone says to me, ‘Are you going to do it again?’, I just shake my head and say, ‘Are you insane? Why would I do that again?’ There are other mountains to climb,” said Nyad. “This one was a 35-year dream, and it’s over. How could you have a better story and a better ending?”
  • evmoevmo SydneyAdmin
    Stranger things have happened in Key West.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_Republic
  • KNicholasKNicholas ArizonaCharter Member
    After September 11, I held my tongue. All of the public positions had been taken -- for, against, good, evil. I had nothing more to add. So I thought, Bring in the clowns, you know what I mean? That's why I've done a coupla years' worth of comedies.
    -- Jack Nicholson

    After Nyad, . . .
    IronMike
  • I pondered posting to this thread again and am ambivalent but my one thought , after seeing Chloe stumble out of the water, face swollen, unsteady to say the least, tearful... was... THAT is what one looks like after 40+ hours in the water.

    And.. that is NOT what Nyad looked like at all.
    swimdailylakespraypavlicovIronMikerosemarymintloneswimmerdpm50
  • TheodoreTheodore Member
    edited August 2016
    So , what is the MSF view ? Did Diana swim the whole way and has her swim been recognised?
  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member
    Having just witnessed Chloe's swim first hand, I can say that i now have a much greater respect for whatever DN did in the water but I aslo feel more disdain for the way it was marketed and misrepresented.
    jkormanikSpacemanspiffmjstaplesDredpiraterobtsIronMike

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • Which is probably going to be as good an appreciation as we're going to get.
  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member

    Anyone else find it humourous (that's for you Donal) that DN has titled her latest book "Find a Way"? ;)

    lakespray

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

This discussion has been closed.