Doc,
Please clarify on the many deaths you mention in our sport. I am aware of a recent shark attack but that's it. (Thank God!)
Also, do you know if your client or any other of her crew are going to send their data to the archives?
I repeat what I and many have said previously: if she had brought along 2 Observers, this thread wouldn't be approaching 800 comments.
No one is bullying you. That is the realm of DN (I don't remember any of us calling you a troll).
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
If others on Ms. Nyad’s team advised you not to engage this forum because they knew there are not rational answers to fundamental questions, from a Ms. Nyad team perspective they were right.
(I admit that I don't have enough information to know, but the more I learn about this swim and Ms. Nyad’s other activities, the more I believe it is a story.)
Trying to discredit someone by refuting an unstated claim is a tactic. No one claimed this forum was an official body.
(It is however, a world-wide collection of some of the best marathon swimmers in the world. (I am not one of them.))
Referencing “inaccuracies” without identifying them is a tactic.
(This discussion started with questions, not statements. It has only turned to statements when no answers to the questions were forthcoming.)
You are the person making the bold assertion that “she did it” (without the ability to answer basic questions). No one here bullied you into making that statement.
Making a claim of cyberbullying when none is occurring is a tactic.
Referencing “hatred” when none exists is a tactic.
Your use of “lads” is a tactic. Dismissive at the same time implying that this is a male/ female issue.
You publicly offered to provide "data-videos" and you are now stating it is not your responsibility. This is a tactic.
You have been representing the team, yet now (faced with questions you cannot address) you state you are not a liaison or leader. This is a tactic.
Focusing on a single inflammatory word (guilty) instead of addressing the bigger issues is a tactic.
Stating that you are not being listened to when tactics are not working... is a tactic.
Until you accept that Ms. Nyad’s team has not provided the normal and customary information provided by marathon swimmers, you will remain frustrated with this forum. Tactics will not change that.
@AnthonyMcCarley, yes, I know about her and Paraic (sp?), but I think the good doctor was inferring (wait, implying? I can never get those straight) that there have been many deaths in open water swimming due to ocean creatures.
@AngelYanagihara said: I am genuinely worried about loss of life due to jellyfish envenomations. There have been many deaths in this sport.
Sad though it is (and I wish those swimmers RIP and for their families to find peace), but two EC deaths and the one recently from a shark attack cannot be deemed many.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Something occurred to me a few week ago and I haven't mentioned it anywhere to now, out of respect for @AngelYanigahara.
In her posts she has frequently cited her concern over the safety of swimmers and even the ethics of allowing a swimmer into dangerous waters (though all water is dangerous as we know better than most). In her second-last post above she did so again and mentioned how she was obliged to help any member of the public who contacted her. She had often mentioned fatalities, (often indirectly implying this was something we here don't care about as much as she).
@Chloemccardeldotcom didn't contact @AngelYanigahara for assistance. Yet we do know that @Angel Yanigahara did contact members of @Chloe's team to make sure they weren't using any of her (Angel's) product. In fact, I've been told by a reputable source, that she threatened legal action if they were using it (they weren't).
So we consequently also know that @AngelYanigahara, apparently confident of her new sting formulation, didn't reach out to ensure that @Chloe, about who she directly expressed concern here, was using her product, which I would imagine you would do if a) you were sure of its efficacy and b) as concerned for all swimmers as espoused.
Maybe unless you were part of a team that saw volunteers for other swims as traitors, and wished other swimmers would fail so you could maximise your financial benefits?
Further, in the realm of pure speculation, could it be that a high profile media swim is the best way of eliciting further research funding or even to transition to a well-marketed end product? Research which btw, we here are all interested in and would all benefit from in an end product, as we would from any other competing but less well advertised product?
These are the kinds of question for which I have the Diana Nyad team to thank, having never asked them before of anyone or even considered them.
As Deep Throat says in All the President's Men, "follow the money".
Your use of “lads” is a tactic. Dismissive at the same time implying that this is a male/ female issue.
This accusation by the Dream Team is quite offensive and has been played by many a DN supporter (just scroll through any comment thread) with zero evidence that this is a motivating factor of any non-believers.
Pathetic... really, but perhaps an effective way to rally the troops and change the subject.
So Dr Angel insists "she did it" and Reuters say she did 96 miles in a pool in 48 hours. So who do we believe? These two worthy sources? Just because they say so? Clearly Diana swam nowhere near 96 miles so how can we ever have any faith in her claims or those made by others in her behalf. UNLESS some of the stuff which Dr Angel says she has, and stuff Dream Team say they have, is divulged. Surely this stuff exists, because they say so. But as we see, just because world class bodies say so, is meaningless when what is said is so obviously inaccurate.
I expect Dream Team have forensically examined their stuff and have found it wanting, otherwise why would they allow this debacle to continue when it could so easily be verified by publishing good data. Maybe the data doesn't exist, maybe the data doesn't answer the questions.
Well, what a silly lady Diana is, to attempt such a fantastic swim and not have the basic documentation and independant evidences. How silly also, to blatantly defy the founding principles of long distance swimming, especially with the dubious claims of previous swims.
We all owe it to our fellow competitors to pay much attention to such evidences when we undertake such world class events. It is such a shame that we cannot all support Diana in such an amazing swim just because she was rubbish at documenting it. That failure has robbed her of much that she deserved, had the evidences supported her swim without question.
I am more upset about such a blatant disregard of documentation. It is not fair to other swimmers coming after her and it is not fair to Diana for (most on this forum) us to feel obliged to disbelieve her, if she really did do this swim.
I know this is old news but I had a thought yesterday while heading out on my morning swim in the ocean. The water temp has begun to drop a bit and the air is beginning to feel like fall. It dawned on me as I was dreading 'winter ocean swimming' that Diana wore 2 swim suits once she was assisted into her stinger suit. Yet another example of a blatant rule violation. Can anyone think of any marathon swim that allows a swimmer to double up on swim suits? She could have taken off her swim suit prior to being assisted into her stinger suit (Penny did and put on her stinger suit by herself with zero assistance) but chose not to for whatever reason. This is not a discussion about stinger suits but rather a swimmer ignoring fundamental swimsuit rules and wearing 2 suits at once.
Ok, I admit it, I receive AARP , the magazine.
And guess who is "interviewed"...center of magazine. Agh... She has given "all the data to the review organization". And says she will go' Where ever needed to do more fundraising for those in need".. nb-- not an exact quote but generally that's the idea.
Sigh.....
I recorded her movie on Showtime with the intent of sacrificing myself for you all so you don't have to watch it. I will then do a review on my blog, pointing out the most important aspects of the film for you all.
Stay tuned!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Here is an email that is being sent around to some members of our community (not me):
On Monday, November 11, 2013, Manuel de Seixas Correa wrote:
Dear ******,
My name is Manuel de Seixas Correa and I am an Associate Producer working with Figura Media, a documentary production company based out of New York and with offices in Los Angeles and Brazil.
We are currently working on a short form documentary for Vice Media, which explores the technology and science behind Diana Nyad’s swim from Cuba to Florida.
We are looking for marathon swimmers who can give us an interesting perspective on Diana’s accomplishments. Our research has led us to you as a potential interview subject. We have come to learn that you are a highly accomplished member of the marathon swimming community and that you may have interesting opinions about Diana’s swim. I would love to be able to discuss your thoughts at your earliest convenience.
I am cc’ing Thiago Da Costa, the main producer on the project. We would love to answer any questions you may have. We very much look forward to hearing from you. You can call me directly at 323-***-**** or please send me a number where I can reach you.
Perfect. So when I'm 67, I am going to stare up into the sky and tell Diana I'm profusely sorry I questioned her Cuba swim (BUT only if someone says that it wasn't a very nice thing for me to do back when I was young and foolish.)
Ms. Nyad again does a masterful job of manipulation.
Ms. Nyad framed the issue of her swim as only the use of the stinger suit – completely ignoring the bigger issues of how she was able to swim three times her normal speed for extended periods of time and that no publically available information supports her magical current claim. Never mentions that there are photos of her receiving buoyancy support and being touched. No explanation at all regarding her lack of credible Observers.
She even frames EC rules as not credible.
And anyone who challenges her is just jealous.
It is disappointing that the writer allowed this to happen.
Brilliant framing and manipulation. I admire Ms. Nyad’s abilities - just not her swimming or lack of integrity.
Lance Armstrong: the analogy that continues to be applicable: After years of bullying and threats and even lawsuits, LA goes on Oprah to explain himself, his apology to Betsy Andreu and Emma O'Reilly, whom he sued and called a prostitute, only comes after he has been caught and is done to the media, not in person but as part of the great story. He insults Betsy Andreu in the process like DN covertly does in that article.
"Armstrong claims the former head of world cycling knew about his drug abuse and encouraged him to cover up his doping. He says the then president of the UCI, Verbruggen, was complicit in the skulduggery that allowed him to continue in the 1999 Tour de France despite a positive drugs test."
Ruminating on this ( yet again) and I guess my question , for myself as well as DN,
" what do you want your legacy to be"?
I try to do things in such a way that will ameliorate any "legacy " I might have.
I doubt that is how DN is acting. I also doubt that is how LA acting.
Life is short, your legacy hopefully is one that will make you proud or at least satisfied.
I thought that I was over this until the last episode of TV's "Grimm". A race of mer-people, conveniently called "Nyads". The mere mention of the name turned my stomach.
I thought that I was over this until the last episode of TV's "Grimm". A race of mer-people, conveniently called "Nyads". The mere mention of the name turned my stomach.
Wow, jaw just dropped. Sad , shocked and just a teensy bit , uh... intrigued? curious?
Any comments from the swimmer? I mean the man that found the current for her swim (s) ,gone forever.
I am very grateful for the work that has been done by members of this forum to bring to light the dubious nature of the DN Affair. Without the insight, experience, and incredulity of the MSF I would have swallowed the main stream media version of the 'success', as that is the only place I would have heard about it. I have been using the knowledge I have gleaned from these posts to try to spread the word to people who ask my me thoughts about "that woman who swam from Cuba to Florida", which happens often when co-workers who know I swim have a conversation related to my interests.
That last picture posted by @Niek pushed me over the edge of suspended judgement to plain disbelief.
I didn't have to wait too long to fill the void of motivation of ridiculous magnitude though. I'm greatly looking forward to Jamie Patrick's swim in August. http://www.thegreatlakeswim.com/#!the-swim/c1ktj
Thanks @david_barra.
I've now added a post-script to this post as I suspect I have misunderstood what's happening in the image...although the discussion of it still stands, I think.
Thanks @david_barra.
I've now added a post-script to this post as I suspect I have misunderstood what's happening in the image...although the discussion of it still stands, I think.
Another great blog post.
(and I only had to use the dictionary once)
Agreed. A fascinating read @KarenT . But you sent me to the dictionary twice. Going to try to sprinkle palaver and solipsistic into casual conversation tomorrow just to see people's reaction.
Three random thoughts:
1) Regarding the picture, Ms. Nyad has so little cred in this community that we always assume the worst. Interestingly, although it says lots about her, it also says something about us - although I'm not sure what, exactly.
2) During the original donnybrook over this, I did notice that @KarenT was mostly absent. Now we know that she is using us a lab rats for her next paper (see her blog post). She is getting wealthly - she has TWO chairs in her office and they have promised her a key to the ladies room next - off our fighting to the death. Cruel.
3) In the picture, those are NOT rescue divers. They are really two lamprey disguised as divers and they aren't helping, they are actually trying to kill her. Even more reason we should vote for her as cheat... err... adventurer of the year. However, I have to cast my vote for Brian Norris:
-LBJ
“Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.” - Oscar Wilde
"My managers, 15 Minutes Inc, along with our stupendous sponsor, Procter & Gamble (specifically their brands that have earned a long-standing reputation in the work of disaster relief….Duracell, TIDE, and Secret) "
You get a Secret. And you get a Secret. Everyone gets a Secret.
OK, just saw some dumb-a$$ commercial for Bing that showed DN and thanked her for "being brave and persevering" and included her in the same group as women serving in combat.
AAHHHH!!!!
I will not use Bing now.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Comments
Please clarify on the many deaths you mention in our sport. I am aware of a recent shark attack but that's it. (Thank God!)
Also, do you know if your client or any other of her crew are going to send their data to the archives?
I repeat what I and many have said previously: if she had brought along 2 Observers, this thread wouldn't be approaching 800 comments.
No one is bullying you. That is the realm of DN (I don't remember any of us calling you a troll).
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
If others on Ms. Nyad’s team advised you not to engage this forum because they knew there are not rational answers to fundamental questions, from a Ms. Nyad team perspective they were right.
(I admit that I don't have enough information to know, but the more I learn about this swim and Ms. Nyad’s other activities, the more I believe it is a story.)
Trying to discredit someone by refuting an unstated claim is a tactic. No one claimed this forum was an official body.
(It is however, a world-wide collection of some of the best marathon swimmers in the world. (I am not one of them.))
Referencing “inaccuracies” without identifying them is a tactic.
(This discussion started with questions, not statements. It has only turned to statements when no answers to the questions were forthcoming.)
You are the person making the bold assertion that “she did it” (without the ability to answer basic questions). No one here bullied you into making that statement.
Making a claim of cyberbullying when none is occurring is a tactic.
Referencing “hatred” when none exists is a tactic.
Your use of “lads” is a tactic. Dismissive at the same time implying that this is a male/ female issue.
You publicly offered to provide "data-videos" and you are now stating it is not your responsibility. This is a tactic.
You have been representing the team, yet now (faced with questions you cannot address) you state you are not a liaison or leader. This is a tactic.
Focusing on a single inflammatory word (guilty) instead of addressing the bigger issues is a tactic.
Stating that you are not being listened to when tactics are not working... is a tactic.
Until you accept that Ms. Nyad’s team has not provided the normal and customary information provided by marathon swimmers, you will remain frustrated with this forum. Tactics will not change that.
Unfortunately Susan Taylor died while attempting the English Channel this year.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/15/world/europe/channel-swimmer-death/
I have not heard of any connection to jellies.
Sad though it is (and I wish those swimmers RIP and for their families to find peace), but two EC deaths and the one recently from a shark attack cannot be deemed many.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
In her posts she has frequently cited her concern over the safety of swimmers and even the ethics of allowing a swimmer into dangerous waters (though all water is dangerous as we know better than most). In her second-last post above she did so again and mentioned how she was obliged to help any member of the public who contacted her. She had often mentioned fatalities, (often indirectly implying this was something we here don't care about as much as she).
@Chloemccardeldotcom didn't contact @AngelYanigahara for assistance. Yet we do know that @Angel Yanigahara did contact members of @Chloe's team to make sure they weren't using any of her (Angel's) product. In fact, I've been told by a reputable source, that she threatened legal action if they were using it (they weren't).
So we consequently also know that @AngelYanigahara, apparently confident of her new sting formulation, didn't reach out to ensure that @Chloe, about who she directly expressed concern here, was using her product, which I would imagine you would do if a) you were sure of its efficacy and b) as concerned for all swimmers as espoused.
Maybe unless you were part of a team that saw volunteers for other swims as traitors, and wished other swimmers would fail so you could maximise your financial benefits?
Further, in the realm of pure speculation, could it be that a high profile media swim is the best way of eliciting further research funding or even to transition to a well-marketed end product? Research which btw, we here are all interested in and would all benefit from in an end product, as we would from any other competing but less well advertised product?
These are the kinds of question for which I have the Diana Nyad team to thank, having never asked them before of anyone or even considered them.
As Deep Throat says in All the President's Men, "follow the money".
loneswimmer.com
Pathetic... really, but perhaps an effective way to rally the troops and change the subject.
...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
I expect Dream Team have forensically examined their stuff and have found it wanting, otherwise why would they allow this debacle to continue when it could so easily be verified by publishing good data. Maybe the data doesn't exist, maybe the data doesn't answer the questions.
Well, what a silly lady Diana is, to attempt such a fantastic swim and not have the basic documentation and independant evidences. How silly also, to blatantly defy the founding principles of long distance swimming, especially with the dubious claims of previous swims.
We all owe it to our fellow competitors to pay much attention to such evidences when we undertake such world class events. It is such a shame that we cannot all support Diana in such an amazing swim just because she was rubbish at documenting it. That failure has robbed her of much that she deserved, had the evidences supported her swim without question.
I am more upset about such a blatant disregard of documentation. It is not fair to other swimmers coming after her and it is not fair to Diana for (most on this forum) us to feel obliged to disbelieve her, if she really did do this swim.
http://www.athleta.net/2013/10/22/notable/
Well done, @emkhowley
AP reporter Jennifer Kay predicted "rage" on the Forum [LINK], so please don't fulfill her prediction.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
"The Other Shore: The Diana Nyad Story."
No.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
And guess who is "interviewed"...center of magazine. Agh... She has given "all the data to the review organization". And says she will go' Where ever needed to do more fundraising for those in need".. nb-- not an exact quote but generally that's the idea.
Sigh.....
Stay tuned!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Diana Nyad's Great Regret: Endurance Icon Once Attacked a Record Cuba-to-Florida Swim
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303559504579198073878055530
Ms. Nyad framed the issue of her swim as only the use of the stinger suit – completely ignoring the bigger issues of how she was able to swim three times her normal speed for extended periods of time and that no publically available information supports her magical current claim. Never mentions that there are photos of her receiving buoyancy support and being touched. No explanation at all regarding her lack of credible Observers.
She even frames EC rules as not credible.
And anyone who challenges her is just jealous.
It is disappointing that the writer allowed this to happen.
Brilliant framing and manipulation. I admire Ms. Nyad’s abilities - just not her swimming or lack of integrity.
loneswimmer.com
"Armstrong claims the former head of world cycling knew about his drug abuse and encouraged him to cover up his doping. He says the then president of the UCI, Verbruggen, was complicit in the skulduggery that allowed him to continue in the 1999 Tour de France despite a positive drugs test."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2509002/LANCE-ARMSTRONG-WORLD-EXCLUSIVE-UCI-helped-cheat-way-Tour-France-titles.html
" what do you want your legacy to be"?
I try to do things in such a way that will ameliorate any "legacy " I might have.
I doubt that is how DN is acting. I also doubt that is how LA acting.
Life is short, your legacy hopefully is one that will make you proud or at least satisfied.
FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naiad
...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Any comments from the swimmer? I mean the man that found the current for her swim (s) ,gone forever.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
That last picture posted by @Niek pushed me over the edge of suspended judgement to plain disbelief.
I didn't have to wait too long to fill the void of motivation of ridiculous magnitude though. I'm greatly looking forward to Jamie Patrick's swim in August. http://www.thegreatlakeswim.com/#!the-swim/c1ktj
Darn...that's one deathbed confession not published.
Another great blog post.
(and I only had to use the dictionary once)
...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
I've now added a post-script to this post as I suspect I have misunderstood what's happening in the image...although the discussion of it still stands, I think.
I think so too
...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
Agreed. A fascinating read @KarenT . But you sent me to the dictionary twice. Going to try to sprinkle palaver and solipsistic into casual conversation tomorrow just to see people's reaction.
1) Regarding the picture, Ms. Nyad has so little cred in this community that we always assume the worst. Interestingly, although it says lots about her, it also says something about us - although I'm not sure what, exactly.
2) During the original donnybrook over this, I did notice that @KarenT was mostly absent. Now we know that she is using us a lab rats for her next paper (see her blog post). She is getting wealthly - she has TWO chairs in her office and they have promised her a key to the ladies room next - off our fighting to the death. Cruel.
3) In the picture, those are NOT rescue divers. They are really two lamprey disguised as divers and they aren't helping, they are actually trying to kill her. Even more reason we should vote for her as cheat... err... adventurer of the year. However, I have to cast my vote for Brian Norris:
-LBJ
“Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.” - Oscar Wilde
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/yacht-captain-caught-smuggling-621-pounds-of-cocai/nbJ7q/
"My managers, 15 Minutes Inc, along with our stupendous sponsor, Procter & Gamble (specifically their brands that have earned a long-standing reputation in the work of disaster relief….Duracell, TIDE, and Secret) "
You get a Secret. And you get a Secret. Everyone gets a Secret.
AAHHHH!!!!
I will not use Bing now.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams